Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/Jan 2008 - Dec 2008

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Template:InterLingvLigoj[edit]

There are many "add language" requests in the discussion page of this protected template. Can an admin take a look please? Thanks, Malafaya 23:09, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Page: namespace, status of pages[edit]

I have made changes to the Proofreadpage software, that will allow users to visualize the status of all pages of a book, using colors, on the index page. A preview can be seen on fr:Livre:Jules Vallès - L'Enfant.djvu. This system works in combination with a new validation procedure, that is following the system used at de.ws. The new validation procedure requires that two different users proofread a page, and it is described here: fr:Aide:Qualité des pages. There are 4 levels: 'Not proofread' (the default), 'Problematic', 'Proofread', 'Validated'. The button corresponding to 'validated' will not show up if the page has not been previously marked as 'Proofread' by another user than the one doing the validation. (this works by storing the name of proofreaders in the template, as can be seen here). The former 'Incomplete' level has been dropped, because it is not useful when describing single pages.

This new system will soon be available in all subdomains. The names of the different quality levels can be modified by sysops using system messages. It will also be possible to disable the system if a subdomain does agree with the idea of double proofreading. Feedback is welcome.

ThomasV 17:03, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Copyright clarifications from Mike Godwin[edit]

Two clarifications on copyright concerns have come down from the WMF counsel

  1. Copyright regarding public speeches
  2. Status of the "rule of the shorter term" in the US

Please spread this information to any subdomains which are confused on these issues.--BirgitteSB 19:09, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Anthere has made a clarification on it, see here 555 19:36, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

linking to article from Wikipedia[edit]

Hi, there

Linking to different Wikimedia-projects are easy enough when they have their own subdomain, but how should I, for instance, link to Wet op basiese diensvoorwaardes 75 van 1997 here, from the Afrikaans Wikipedia? (Other than using a complete url.) 217.149.199.35 11:28, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

with [[oldwikisource:Wet op basiese diensvoorwaardes 75 van 1997]] 201.93.196.132 12:49, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the quick reply (and the info of course!). Anrie 15:07, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Linking to specific language's main page from menu[edit]

Is it at all possible to have something similar to the Commons' MediaWiki:Welcome-url/af, that will, when a registered user has selected Afrikaans as his prefered language in the preferences section, the "Main page"-link in the right-hand menu (which then says "Tuisblad") will link to Main Page:Afrikaans? Also, is it required that this (Main Page:Afrikaans) is where the main page must be located? Why can't http://wikisource.org/wiki/Tuisblad be used?

Just some things I have been pondering... Anrie 13:07, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

DoubleWiki alignment and different header templates[edit]

DoubleWiki matches paragraphs "assuming that both pages have the same structure (paragraphs and titles)". But a problem arises if the first item in that structure is a header template and the header templates in the two languages are of different types. (English, Portugese, Polish, et al. use one type of header; Latin, French, Italian, et al. use another; there may be others.)

It seems either DoubleWiki should handle this, or header templates should be standardized.

Some careful tweaks can work around the problem, but the tweaks are the kind whose purpose is not obvious. They could easily get blown away by a future editor.

See s:Novum Organum/Book I Click <=> to see a side-by-side Latin original. Now look at the wiki source for the English page. There is a blank line before the header template. Remove it and DoubleWiki's side-by-side paragraphing breaks. --Mccaskey 01:50, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I've run into this a few times, and there are a few options that have come to mind:

  1. the header and all leading whitespace should be taken from the host wiki (i.e. en) and discarded from the "other wiki" (i.e. la)
  2. like suggestion #1, new tags could be added to allow control over what wikitext is included in the side-by-side view
  3. tags are added to allow the two sides to be synced. i.e. <sync name="para1"/> would be added to both en and la in the correct spot, and DoubleWiki resyncs the two at that location.

John Vandenberg 00:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm now putting

<div title="End of header" />

at the end of headers. It alone doesn't sync the header but does sync everything below it. I then put

&nbsp;<!-- For DoubleWiki syncing. -->

at the top of the en pages. It's a hack, but it works and adding the comments will probably keep someone from removing the hackware. --Mccaskey 23:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

If this works reliably, that voodoo could/should be added at the bottom of the header templates on all languages. John Vandenberg 07:55, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree that this extension is too sensitive to document structure
the markers it uses should be more explicit
i don't have much time to fix it at the moment, but if someone comes with a sensible solution, let him go ahead
ThomasV 09:34, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Middle Dutch / Middel Neerlants[edit]

Just a thought. The Middle Dutch section is just small, and since the Dutch Wikisource has quite a few Middle Dutch sources, wouldn't be more efficient integrating the Middle Dutch section into the Dutch Wikisource? Middel Dutch was a form of Dutch spoken in the Middle Ages.
Bye bye, JosN 19:13, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

No, it's a distinct language sharing elements derived from Early English and it will become in time Flemish. The Dutch Wikisource should attribute these texts accurately - please contact the [Ruusbroec School of the University of Antwerp] if in doubt.

Template:InterLingvLigoj[edit]

There are many "add language" requests in the discussion page of this protected template. Can an admin take a look please? Thanks, 87.14.59.4 15:50, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Done, --LadyInGrey 22:12, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Move of main wikisource[edit]

It has come to my attention that wikisource is the only wiki that has an actual wiki on the main page. Other wikis use a portal:

Wikisource is using the main domain like an incubator, which is perfectly fine and this request is not conflicting this.

What I propose is that wikisource.org be moved to beta.wikisource.org or multiligual.wikisource.org or (type something here).wikisource.org and wikisource.org itself becomes a portal like every other wiki.

http://www.wikiversity.org also has an incubator and its http://beta.wikiversity.org

I hope this makes sense.

-- Cat chi? 00:04, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

"beta" is definitely not the right name. "mul" for multilingual would be acceptable. see meta:Requests for new languages/Wikibooks Multilingual. John Vandenberg 00:12, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Thats fine. mul.wikisource.org makes more sense than beta. -- Cat chi? 00:52, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

The question is not whether having an actual wiki for the portal is like the other projects (it is not) but rather whether its functionality is better or worse. I think the history since 2005 shows that having the portal as a wiki-page at a live wiki has served it well, and it is better maintained, more aesthetic, more up-to-date and more useful than are the portals for the other projects.

Being identical to the other portals is less important than simply being well-done, which the other portals are not. The other generic portals show only the top-ten languages prior to the seachbar, ours shows all of them in an organized fashion, even those without their own domain. Ours provides links to information about the project and all of its various languages. (Ours does not currently provide the "search" bar, but it is not clear how useful this really is, plus it compounds the language problem by providing the word "search" only in the largest languages.)

As for putting it into a domain, there is a certain logic to that, though to my mind it isn't crucial one way or the other. It seems that "mul.wikisource.org" could work, or perhaps another code, if anyone thinks of something better. It might even help with interwiki links to this wiki. The only crucial thing is to make sure that the ":oldwikisource:" link to here still works, as it has already been used in thousands of places.

Another idea that just occurred to me is that even if a static portal were set to "wikisource.org" it could be mirrored anyway at the main page of this wiki. Furthermore, perhaps "wikisource.org" (non-wiki page) could mirror the code here, and then you have the best of all worlds: (1) "wikisource.org" matches the other projects; (2) the main-page portal is still maintained in live wiki fashion at a live Wikisource wiki; (3) the main multilingual page remains truly multilingual (as opposed to beta.wikiversity.org, for instance, which is in English). Dovi 09:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

The way things are at Wikisource has worked well for several years. This seems to be a good place to invoke, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Uniformity with other sister projects is not essential for this. Eclecticology 19:04, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
That's totally fine with me too. I was just mulling over the ideas of the others. Dovi 04:12, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
It is broken though. :oldwikisource: is hard coded so it would work regardless. The main page would become your standard portal every other edition of wikimedia projects use. beta.wikiversity.org is a sub domain unlike www.wikiversity.org. I recently updated the www.wikinews.org template on meta. It is not something very hard to do.
The main page of mul.wikibooks.org could be the big ten of projects within mul.wikibooks.org in other word the largest 10 project in mul.wikibooks would be listed. Crossing the 100+ barrier would have more of a meaning.
-- Cat chi? 07:03, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
What meaning would that be? Eclecticology 08:27, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Dovi : (Ours does not currently provide the "search" bar, but it is not clear how useful this really is, plus it compounds the language problem by providing the word "search" only in the largest languages.). Why not an icon to indicate search ? An image wouldn't involve any language.- --Zephyrus 09:52, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree that recognizable icons would be a much nicer solution than multiple translations for numerous pages that are supposedly multilingual but are not really fully so. But since I'm not great with graphics I've never actually tried implementation. To Cat: As for "crossing barriers," it seems to me that the point of the current page is to encourage all languages by making them feel welcome, even those with low numbers or without a subdomain. And what exactly is broken?Dovi 20:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Technical query: If the other portals show templates found on meta, then could a wikisource.org portal show the code found on the main page here? Dovi 20:53, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

The image might be something like this.- --Zephyrus 12:25, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Is that how it's done on the other portals, with a static image? For some reason I thought that when the code for a portal is changed on Meta, its corresponding portal is updated automatically. Dovi 18:47, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, if we change something, the change must be made on Meta. Do you wish that I do that ? Other people can do it far better than I; but I can do it if it is useful or necessary and if nobody else has time.- --Zephyrus 08:18, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Dovi and Ec here: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Yann 09:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


I know this one: "Never change a running system", :-), -jkb- 11:27, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, if it is neither necessary nor useful I won't change anything :) - --Zephyrus 17:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree that we shouldn't do anything with this. It ain't broke, so no need to fix it. Besides, WS is a bit unique: it hosts texts in languages that don't have their subdomain, unlike any other project (save, maybe, for the wikiversity, where beta serves its purpose, but there is no reason to name this a beta site). --Dungodung 14:22, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

interwiki oldwikisource[edit]

Wikipedia, Wikinews, Wikibooks, Wikiquote, Wiktionary, Wikiversity were all started with separate language subdomains, but Wikisource was not. I came to Wikisource and became an admin here before voting for or against breaking language subdomains away. I did not vote while I was unsure of the impact of this site, but I adapted to the consensus including requesting Chinese Wikisource. Being consistent with these six Wiki projects is not the most important. As long as this site still runs well, I do not consider moving this main Wikisource site needed. However, I wonder if anyone can allow the display of interlanguage links on the navigation bar like on language subdomains.--Jusjih 03:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello,
Interwiki links do not work here like on subdomains. This is a bug since the creation of subdomains. Yann 21:05, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Note that they do work for beta.wikiverity.org. Has a bug ever been filed for this? Dovi 18:57, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I think it was mentioned to the developers, but I am sure that a bug was filled in Bugzilla. Yann 19:05, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I cannot find it. But I would strongly support a bug on this matter. -jkb- 20:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


oppose--Wmrwiki 08:39, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

import[edit]

Special:Import has a source "sa". Does anyone know off hand what "sa" is ? I have requested the ability to import from meta and commons. John Vandenberg 05:54, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I can't find where the special page was edited, but there was some talk in the archives about importing from the Sanskrit Wikipedia. I suspect that this is an obsolete element, and can probably be removed. Eclecticology 20:03, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
As a Meta steward, I can tell that only Meta stewards may add or remove any Wikimedia users' importing rights. If you want to import from any Wiki sites, I would like to suggest using Wikisource:Administrators to request importing right here.--Jusjih 21:24, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
bugzilla:13377 was resolved, but the new transwiki sources were not added as far as I can see. I have reopened the bug.
I dont not understand how users' importing rights comes into this; Special:Import allows me to transwiki from other wikis, and Special:Log/import shows that I have been able to do this successfully already. see Special:ListGroupRights, which says that all admins here have transwiki capabilities.
The ability to import from "file" is a separate capability, and I guess it cant hurt to have admins able to do this. --John Vandenberg 23:08, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Admin[edit]

If I can help fighting vandals, I can be an admin here. I am one already on fr.wiksource and on wikilivres, so I know the tools.- --Zephyrus 20:10, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

you have been appointed as a sysop ThomasV 13:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you, ThomasV. Thank you all.- --Zephyrus 15:06, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit]

Hi, some years ago I have created a proposal of logo for Wikisource [1]. The logo has been deleted. It's possible to recover it to upload it in Commons? The link probably is: [2]. --Ilario 13:11, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Image:Wikisource logo ilario.png has been restored. Please leave a note here or on my talk when you have transferred it to commons. John Vandenberg 07:42, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Deleted again, it is OK, see User talk:Ilario + User talk:-jkb-#Thank you, -jkb- 08:02, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Once again, this request has been solved on 25th March by uploading it on commons on the same day, then I deleted the image here. But obviously Illario did asked more people to recover it without having given us a message that it is OK. So, do not recover the image here again. -jkb- 16:44, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
OK, fine. Yann 06:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Import 2[edit]

I wonder if the transwiki import is in function. I tried to transwiki something from the cs.source and it did not succeed, I got the message Import failed: Could not open import file. I tried it with some more pages, different namespaces. The same. The transwiki import from en.source is OK. -jkb- 20:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I tried the transwiki with some other domains (de.source, sk.source ...), I have got the same problem. -jkb- 20:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I have applied for importing here at Wikisource:Administrators but no one has supported or opposed my application so far. If you want, I can nominate you and with community approval, I will report it to Meta so any steward will grant such a privilege.--Jusjih 02:01, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jusjih. Probably I did not get something well. My experience from cs.source is that if the import is approved (i.e. there are some domains in the transwiki table) then every admin can use it. Here on oldwikisource there is a teble with all wikisource domains, so I assumed it is OK. If not so I support naturally your request fully as it is necessary sometimes. See also Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/Jan 2007 - Dec 2007#Transwiki - Importing data. Thanks. -jkb- 10:05, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Being an administrator is separate from being able to import. As a Meta steward and an admin on 11 Wiki sites, I have importing rights on English Wikiquote, Chinese Wikisource, and Chinese Wiktionary, but not other 8 sites. We have only one user with importing privilege by file uploading, but no user with transwikiing privilege, so if anyone is interested I will be willing to nominate you, then after community support I will report to Meta to have any disinterested steward to promote. The importing table that we have here is separate from the importing privilege.--Jusjih 00:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi. First, I spoke here about import-transwiki, not import-upload. And I reported according my experiences on the cs.source. The transwiki feature is open to all admins there, and moreover, every admin can transwiki from every domain which is in the transwiki table (like here on the page Special:Import). I have tried it just now once more. Therefore I was wandering that I cannot transwiki here although the cs.source is in the table. Sure, I do not mind if I can or I cannot transiwki from the venetian wikiquote, but I zhought it should be possible to transiwki from cs.source etc. by the way: the transwiki privilege you are speaking about is something else: it is the additional privilege to use transwiki for non-admins. If you have lokk at the same page on the cs.source [3], so you will find no user there, but anyway, every admin can do transwiki there. Ehm, so, waht to do?? -jkb- 11:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

By the way: who is responsible for the import-upload rights??? Since one year there is somebody in the import-upload-privilege-table on the cs.source - see [4] - without that somebody told me about it or asked me about it or anounced it. Anyway, I am the only one bureaucrat there. -jkb- 12:06, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Based on what I know, apparently only a steward but not a bureaucrat can add or drop someone's import-upload right. I am less familiar with the transwiki privilege.--Jusjih 02:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
I now have the importing privilege. I would like to know how to apply the transwiki privilege.--Jusjih 01:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

As far as I can remember I requested it for the cs.source on the bugzilla pages. -jkb- 07:00, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

ko.wikisource have 1,000+[edit]

ko.wikisource have 1,000+ articles now :) -- WonRyong 11:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Updated, see: Template:Wikisource languages, --LadyInGrey 15:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Interwiki[edit]

How i can in a language sites add a interwiki to here? The syntax [[oldwikisource:Hans Christian Andersen]] (Volapük) does not works... -- Sergey kudryavtsev 10:03, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

The link works, but it is not display in the left margin. That's a bug that exists since the subdomains were created. Yann 10:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Hello, i am glad to see you again, Yann! This is exactly a bug (not a behaviour by design)? Can you give me a MediaZilla link? -- Sergey kudryavtsev 11:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Sergey, Where I think it is a bug, even if the developers intended it works this way. I don't know if it is mentioned in Bugzilla. Yann 11:48, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I think like you too. We are should have a way to supply inter-wiki links to a exotic language works, which stored here. -- Sergey kudryavtsev 13:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Is this bug № 4758? -- Sergey kudryavtsev 14:03, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
No, this is about something else. Yann 17:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
This is a long standing problem that should have been solved but never solved. This prevents us from linking Unuiĝintaj Nacioj Ĝenerala Asembleo Rezolucio 505 (in Esperanto) with Chinese, English, and French versions. :-( --Jusjih 03:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Wow. Do you mean this one? I know about the problem with iw, but not about the reason. I assumed a technical one. Not this. -jkb- 09:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I have meant that resolution. When I became interested in that, I added Chinese, English, and French versions here, then they were moved to language subdomains. There is no Esperanto Wikisource, so the problem that we talk about here makes linking to and from this site more difficult. By the way, do we allow contributions to make their original translations here?--Jusjih 02:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Category Question[edit]

Now I know that each page must be categorised in a language category, but do all of it's subpages need to be categorised too? --Cradel 12:12, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes. When creating a new subdomain, it is easier to export/import the pages. And, secondly, uncategorized pages irritate many users. -jkb- 14:24, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

What about redirects ? --Cradel 16:55, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
That's quite bad. Categories cannot be redirected - you have change everything by your own (or a bot). -jkb- 17:02, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
I meant, do redirects have to be categorised --Cradel 21:08, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Oh. It seems I have made a faux pas... OK: I recommend to categorize quite all pages, not only articles in the namespace, but really all ones, then we know to which language they belong and can delete them after move to another subdomain. Otherwise there will be a chaos here - see how many languages are working here. Zhanks, regards, -jkb- 08:36, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Sure, no problem --Cradel 10:14, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree. Categorize the redirects, that way, when they are moved to their own domain, the redirects already created will transfer over, and that's just one less piece of work the new subdomain has to take care of.—Zhaladshar (Talk) 15:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Stable Versions[edit]

Is there any Wikisource that has teste the stable versions feature yet? It was discussed some time ago on Text integrity that the now-existing-and-available MediaWiki extension could help to flag pages. -- JakobVoss 01:26, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I know only the discussion on en.wource (see also en:Wikisource:Scriptorium#FlaggedRevisions), de.source had talk about it shortly with the result no interest (see de:Wikisource:Skriptorium#Flagged Revisions). The cs.source will not use it as far as I can judge. -jkb- 07:08, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Yiddish[edit]

Is there some way to tag the two articles in Category:ייִדיש so that they can be moved to the Yiddish Wikisource? I wonder why they didn't get moved when it was created. Angr/Talk 18:05, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes. See User talk:Dovi#to be moved to he. He could know the way. -jkb- 18:10, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I don't know much about tagging or moving articles between wikis. But I understand that is the correct way to do it in order to preserve page histories. Maybe it would be best to simply tag the category and the articles, and when someone knows how, let them do it. Dovi 08:19, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

good job[edit]

Does somebody knows what the Persian Wikisource is doing? Three days ago it was No 31 with 1407 pages ([5]), now it is No 11 with 11.380 pages. Should we learn? -jkb- 13:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Looks like they have a bot [6] doing pretty heavy work. Dovi 06:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Well they are No 9 in our top ten and the Polish WS is out. -jkb- 07:55, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

100.000 pages[edit]

In the last months there has been a significant inrease in the use of ProofreadPage, and today the total number of pages in the proofreading namespace across all domains has reached the 100.000 milestone.

I would like to congratulate all those who have been involved in this accomplishment. Together, we are changing the nature of Wikisource, moving it to a higher standard of quality and reliability.

I would like to take this opportunity to invite all contributors to upload scans of their sources, and not just text. Providing scans is not only a way to improve collaborative proofreading; it is also an end in itself, because it makes our work trustable.

ThomasV 09:42, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Agree, and congratulations. With the PP extension you have provided one of the most important tools for the success of Wikisource.
I would like to point out that other ways of insuring quality are also available. In Hebrew, where we are not able to use "Proofread Page" because of the RTL environment, we have started to simply provide automatic links to scans found at the Commons, such as here where the link is found in the second line of the navigation template. In the end this proved better for our purposes anyway, because most of the projects we are working on are cited by chapter or section, not by page (they have usually appeared in numerous editions with different pagination). Loading them initially by page and subsequently combining the pages into chapters would also have involved far more work and severely hampered progress.
Furthermore, we are implementing "Flagged Revisions," which ensures quality in a different way that "Proofread Page" and is in my opinion no less important. (E.g. we had vandalism on the Wikisource page here today that took many hours before I removed it. With FR this worry disappears. Even in wikis with lots of people patrolling, vandalism can and does get by.) I would like to suggest FR be implemented here at wikisource.org. Dovi 09:57, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

How to handle such ideas[edit]

I am really not sure how to handle the creation of main pages for languages that are strongly ambivalent like the new creations here:

We should have some guidelines for this, such as an ISO number, existing Wikipedia etc. -jkb- 07:34, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

is the old russian refused at ru.ws ? ThomasV 11:21, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't think we have any reason to be strict about this. Let people create texts in whatever they want and choose whatever code they think is appropriate. If as time goes on they add serious material and attract new contributors great. If not nothing is lost. In any case creations like this probably will never meet any guidelines for getting a subdomain, but that is not our problem. In the meantime let them add whatever texts they want. (By the way, at the Incubator these kinds of things are allowed as tests, but they will never get domains.) Dovi 13:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Comment from ru.ws: a russian text in old spelling is allowed in ru.ws (e.g. see ru:Как постепенно дошли люди до настоящей арифметики). -- Sergey kudryavtsev 08:31, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

First, I agree that we should show some tolerant point of view. no problem with that. But here it seems to be something else (and I remember the discussions on an old English slang or whatever, which then went to en.source). The Russian is not another language, it is still the Russian, but written with some two or three special letters that have been cancelled after 1917. In fact the place for such texts is the ru.source. - - - The second one, Polish in cyrillic, is even more ambivalent: as you can read on the main page Main Page:Полски, somebody is creating this just now. Polish has never been written in cyrilic. Thus, I am not sure what impact it will have on people who have a look here to see what we have. Sure, testing is testing, but... And, it should be clear for everybody who see such a page that it is testing - not a serious language collection. Soon we have here people with Chinese texts written in Arabian and so on. Therefore I think there should have some rules or principles, very benevolent, not rigorous, but ... -jkb- 14:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, any text as it was published is fine, even if the langage has changed since the publication. However Polish written in Cyrillic is like a constructed langage, so I think it has no place here. Yann 16:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree with what Dovi has said about existing languages; I agree with Yann's opinion about a language which doesn't exist.- --Zephyrus 17:32, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
I'd just like to comment on -jkb- 's quote, "... with Chinese texts written in Arabian ..." Chinese is occasionally written using the Arabic script in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of China. And I'm not talking about the Uyghur language itself, which is Turkic. Chinese is Sino-Tibetan. So please, get to know your facts.IlStudioso 12:14, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to explain shortly my intention when speaking about the Russian in the old spelling. The texts can be edited here or elsewhere, that is true. But if the texts fit the ru.source (and I think they do), so it would have some more positive sides: the users would learn from the just beginning the community, the environment and the rules of the subdomain. Later imports are more problematic. Therefore, I gues, the question of ThomasV - see above - should be answered first. -jkb- 16:29, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I have moved Main Page:Полски to User:IlStudioso/Полски and deleted the redirect.
I think that the Russian Wikisource project is the best place to put older forms of Russian, inc. Category:Old Church Slavonic. I have asked s:ru:User:Innv to help us out.
I have started developing "Wikisource:Languages", where I hope to list all languages on all Wikisource projects, telling contributors where works in each languages should be added. e.g. Old English goes on English Wikisource, in category s:Category:Old English works. We still have Beowulf and The Lords Prayer here. John Vandenberg 23:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
John Vandenberg 23:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, some two weeks ago I saw somewhere the message, that the Russian Wikisource accepts pages in Old Russian. Now I cannot find it, and there seem to be some difficulties with users in the subdomain. In the meantime the contributions here continue. I sked the Russian subdomain once again on a page that could be something like scriptorium (Викитека:Форум), I hope :-). -jkb- 15:49, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I repeat my comment above: a russian text in old spelling (before the reformation of 1918) is allowed in ru.ws (e.g. see ru:Как постепенно дошли люди до настоящей арифметики). A reading such text is very easy for a native speakers. But a spellcheck and a grammatical writing demands a special linguistic knowledge. Therefore a contributors with such skills welcomed on Russian Wikisource. -- Sergey kudryavtsev 08:31, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I see where it is now ... Now we have it twice here at least, so it is certain. :-) Thanks for the hint. -jkb- 08:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, of course these texts could be included and form a department inside of the Russian Wikisource. However it also could be kept separately for the reason "not creating a mess". Dmitrismirnov 11:16, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Remarks to languages and orthography[edit]

Well, I see the Old Russian Pages are growing here. I will not mind. But in fact it could be important fot the future. Therefore some remarks. Dmitrismirnov, when you say "texts could be included and form a department inside of the Russian Wikisource", so then the next argument from you "However it also could be kept separately" is not quite OK. Let us see the situation: no language, and I mean no language exists without changes. Following your arguments about mess the Germans could exclude all text written by Goethe or Heine (they do not follow the present orthography) or text written by Swiss authors, the Czechs clould exclude all text written before 19th century (there is a very great and odd difference in the writing), maybe the English Wikisource could exclude Shakespeare and others. First, it would obviously be a nonsence. Secondly, when you separate or divide the documents or literature of one language by this way you cannot, I repeat you cannot show the broad richness of a language's literature. And, you cannot offer the reader two or three different copies of the same work just to compare them. And this is also one of the mean goals of Wikisource. It is no mess when you have different orthographies of one language in one subdomain. In contrary, the collection of the documents could be even better. And, last but not least, I do not expect that Old Russian could ever get an own subdomain. Sooner or later you will have to move the text to the Russian Wikisource. And then, it will be very new for you to cooperate there. The best would be to go to the subdomain now, to learn their wiki rules and to develop a good rules to cooperate. But it is up to you. Regards, -jkb- 10:45, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I have seen the increase in Old Russian here, and dont mind whether it is here or on Russian Wikisource. I created Wikisource:Languages with the goal of recording where old languages should be added; e.g. Old English should go on English Wikisource, but there are still a few Old English pages here. I think Old Russian fits on Russian Wikisource better, for the reasons that -jkb- says, but there are other Slavonic languages which are also no longer used by modern people; we should also discuss where they should go, so that we have a clear picture of what should go where. Dmitrismirnov is a sysop on Russian Wikisource. I think Russian Wikisource sysops need to discuss this with us here. John Vandenberg 00:27, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I agree. But I do not think that this is a very simple problem that has a very easy solution. So we will discuss this in the Russian Wikisourse. Dmitrismirnov 17:21, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
After the discussion at the Russian Wikisource Forum ru:Викитека:Форум#Русскій языкъ, it seems that we tend to move this section to the Russian Wikisource, but this will take some time. Until now I moved only 2 files and marked them here for deletion. Regards Dmitrismirnov 17:23, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Dmitrismirnov OK, and thanks for the message. How ever you decide so it will be. But, however, before you start moving the pages from here to there, please be sure that the pages will not be moved by copy+pasting, but better by transwikiing etc. Do you have somebody who can import from here to the ru.source??? Regards, -jkb- 18:32, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea how to do this (transwikiing etc). I need your help in this. At the moment I move them by copy+pasting. Dmitrismirnov 00:52, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Statistics[edit]

How do you get statistics for a language category (test-project) here, like the number of articles --Cradel 16:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Try {{PAGESINCATEGORY:category}}, -jkb- 16:15, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


While on the topic of statistics, there are fresh statistics at stats.wikimedia.org. For example, here is the page count. John Vandenberg 23:06, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Open armed welcome[edit]

Hello!

Same template with another image, in order to have a welcome template different from the one in en.wikisource, what do you think, do you agree? I have looked for an image with open arms, but what I have found is open wings, do you think they would suit the purpose?- --Zephyrus 06:45, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

The image itself is nice, no doubt, but I am not sure if it fits the sake. Might be something like two shaking hand? -jkb- 13:49, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Would this one do? - --Zephyrus 16:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, after I have seen some categorie on commons like commons:Category:Handshakes in art, I think something like this. Yes. But probably it would be better to make the background transparent. -jkb- 20:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Like this? Or do you prefer this one? We can see interesting possibilities here too.- --Zephyrus 18:42, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikisource bots[edit]

Hi to all. I would like to activate the beeing bots in the different subdomains and to increase their activity. As someones would recall some months ago there has been some problems with a bot (also on some wikinews domains etc.), claiming interwiki on wikisource is completely the same like on wikipedia, no experience or language practice is necessary etc. And now, meta introduced their global bots. As I still am sure that interwiki making on Wikisoruce is something very different and a general experience with Wikisource is a must, I would like to address those of us who have a bot: when making interwiki on your own subdomain, make more of them and do the same in other ones. For instance, Zumg visites cs.spurce from time to time and it is OK, some users make interwiki manually etc. Let us concentrate this jibe in the future. My suggestion. -jkb- 10:26, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Pre-1923 works that are public domain in the USA but still copyrighted in their home countries[edit]

When Wikisource was opened to accept texts in all languages, we did not have a very clear copyright policy. After language subdomains were opened, different policies and guidelines have been developed. Hosting pre-1923 works that are public domain in the USA (possibly except in the 9th Circuit) but still copyrighted in their home countries is accepted on English Wikisource. However, I would like to discuss this issue while Japanese Wikisource is unwilling to host such a kind of works. For example, Japanese Wikisource has a deletion request about the Japanese lyrics of the Internationale that are still copyrighted in Japan (life + 50 years) even if being pre-1923. We once had them here at インターナショナル until moved to Japanese Wikisource.

As this Multilingual Wikisource site is no longer heavily used once language subdomains have broken away, I would like to suggest hosting pre-1923 works that are public domain in the USA but still copyrighted in their home countries, at this site if the corresponding language subdomains are unable to host them for the sake of their users. If there are no considerable objections to my thought, the 1922 version of the Japanese Internationale by Ōmi Komaki who died in 1978 may be hosted here through 2028, then in 2029, it will be moved to Japanese Wikisource when no longer copyright in Japan provided that the relevant law remains unchanged. Any comments or suggestions?--Jusjih 20:34, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

According to Ōmi Komaki, he died in 1952, so I don't understand why his works cannot be hosted on ja.ws if Japanese copyright law is 50 years pma. Otherwise, he is a good candidate to be hosted on Wikilivres. There is no Japanese works yet, but there are welcome there. Regards, Yann 21:15, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
That article contradicts itself. I have to further investigate whether he died in 1952 or 1978. If I cannot find the answer, I will err to 1978.--Jusjih 03:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Jusjih, I would support this as a good Idea, naturally, when there are no problems with the foundation (I suppose there are no ones). -jkb- 21:22, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
I do not expect problems with the Foundation whose server is in Florida, USA. At this time, I would like to report that Chinese Wikisource does not formally exclude pre-1923 Chinese works that are PD in the USA but still copyrighted in Greater China. To facilitate this discussion, I have added a new column "Pre-1923 works copyrighted at home" at Wikisource:Subdomain coordination. Please report the situation at other subdomains if you know the answers, so when we are to amend the instruction on adding new pages, we can better tell which works are to be posted here or at language subdomains.--Jusjih 03:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
I would like to hope as well there are no problems as we have some more texts like this on cs.source (having been deleted for some years). The question is what the Foundation says exactly. The US law is clear even for works published outside USA ([7]). But what about the second condition of the Foundation licensing policy - must the work be PD in the country where it was published or must it be PD in the subdomain according to the dedication of the work? I mean this: a Czech work, PD in the USA, but not PD in the Czech Republic, cannot be published in the cs.source as it is not free in the Czech Republic; but if published in the oldwikisource so it is not clear whom it is dedicated to (even if in Czech language). If this construction suits so OK. But I cannot find the actual text of the licensing policy of the Foundation in this question. -jkb- 08:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
After reviewing the foundation:Resolution:Licensing_policy, the Exemption Doctrine Policy involves a "project-specific policy, in accordance with United States law and the law of countries where the project content is predominantly accessed". Based on this, if any language subdomains feel uncomfortable hosting pre-1923 works that are still copyrighted in their home countries, they may make local policies forbidding them. This multilingual site has about 7000 articles. I am unsure where users are from, but hosting pre-1923 works that are still copyrighted in their home countries right here should not have major problems if we make clear copyright tags.--Jusjih 19:58, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
This is fine with me. Yann 22:03, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Right this was my question (and intention). Texts e.g. on the cs.source could be predominantly accessed vy Czech people. But text on the multi.source must not necessarily be dedicated to a special country, just like Czech emigree literature in the USA was not necessarilly dedicated to people living in Czechoslovakia but to emigrees, for instance. I think we could live with this. Sure, special tags should be used. -jkb- 22:21, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
To make a specific copyright tag, I would like to suggest importing w:Template:PD-US-1923-abroad. I will import when everything is in order. Language subdomains that allow pre-1923 works still copyrighted at home should also consider this kind of template. I will prepare doing so on Chinese Wikisource where visitors include Chinese living in Greater China and overseas. Even English Wikisource should consider this template to distinguish American and non-American works while most countries do not have pre-1923 public domain.--Jusjih 02:37, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
A template like that is very OK. I would only suggest that the text should be not only English but also in that language beeing concerned. The second point will be a decision how to categorize such pages (as all pages should be in a category. A language category is not sufficient here as we use language catgories for languages only we host here as whole. I would suggest to make a general category for these pages like e.g. Category:1923 (that could be categorized in Category:Languages), and then we could habe subcategories like Category:Japanese (1923), Czech (1923) etc. -jkb- 09:49, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Without objections here, I have imported Template:PD-US-1923-abroad with formatting to fit Wikisource. Please feel free to improve it including adding translations as needed. I am not planning to translate it into Chinese while Chinese Wikisource does not exclude pre-1923 works still copyrighted in Greater China. unsigned comment by Jusjih (talk) 19:36, 3 August 2008.
I added a Czech translation to it (here); there is also a template with similar purpose for use in the subdomain here. What about the suggested categorisation? -jkb- 11:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
I suggest bringing en:Category:Public domain in the United States. I am no admin on Czech Wikisource, so if you have any deleted Czech texts to be brought here, please undelete them temporarily and tell me, so I can import them.--Jusjih 22:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Wait. As English Wikisource already uses template codes of copyright tags in categories, these would be much more specific, such as PD-US-1923-abroad, PD-US-1923-abroad/CS, and PD-US-1923-abroad/VEC. This way will allow readers to identify which languages affected works are written in.--Jusjih 00:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Sure, language specific categories are good, see my idea above. This not only for the readers, but for the the users here as well to find texts that should be imported beck to the subdomain after it has got PD there as well.
Thanks for your offer to import our texts. But I think I will ask per bugzilla to enable for me the transwiki import at least from cs.source to multi.source and also vice versa, i.e. in both directions, as it will be helpfull in the future. Regards, -jkb- 08:14, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
To reflect the outcome of this discussion, I just updated MediaWiki:Newarticletext. For any administrator here, please improve the description as needed.--Jusjih 01:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
The existing templates (see Template talk:PD-US-1923-abroad) include the categories for CS, ZH and VEC, which are categorized in Category:PD-US-1923-abroad, and this one is categorized in Category:Languages as the first one. -jkb- 13:36, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Errata policy[edit]

Hi, does Wikisource have a policy for adding errata, that is identifying errors in the original?

For example, http://de.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Seite:Doppl_10.jpg&oldid=399660 contains an error in a mathematical formula. I imagine I could identify that by inserting [Err 1], and down at the page an Errata-section with

  1. x = (Q + α)/a should be: (a + α)/a

. Ceinturion 10:03, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I am afraid you have to contact the project itself - if the project handle errata so they would have different kinds to do so. -jkb- 11:22, 4 August 2008 (UTC) (corr., I was not logged in)
Yeah, that sort of thing is different from project to project. In the works I've added to German Wikisource, I've made footnotes that say "Sic" and then supply the correct word. However, I've noticed that the works displayed prominently on their front page do it the other way around: the correction is made in the main body of the text, and a footnote is added saying "Vorlage: XXX" (where XXX is the mistaken word of the original). —Angr 16:00, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I made the correction in the text, added a footnote "korrigiert, im Druck x = (Q + α)/a", and it appears at the end in a section named "Anmerkungen (Wikisource)" Ceinturion 15:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
I think it will be OK. But, nevertheless, I like your Idea with <ref group=Err>, I think I will install something like that in cs.source soon. Regards. -jkb- 15:18, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Source text in multiple languages[edit]

I have found some source text which is written in both English and Malay (like a bilingual dictionary or a foreign language introduction). These texts are intended for English speaking audience, but there is substantial amount of Malay in them. Is it okay if I label these texts under Malay, and not giving it to the English Wikisource, provided that there are very few public domain Malay texts? Thanks. Aviator 12:57, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

This is a problem that has not been solved yet. More than one year ago I created the category Category:Multilingual as I did not know what to do with these pages - see Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/Jan 2007 - Dec 2007#category multilingual. But we have no guideline, that is the problem. It seems that in some cases it make sense - or it could make sense - to have a page with some more translations, but where is the limit? We surely do not want to host pages like Karl May's Vinetou in 54 languages. My multilingual category was just a first step and a semi solution in a situation without any rules. We should have some proposals to this point. -jkb- 14:46, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
There is one work that is truly multilingual: de:Index:Zwei-Plus-Vier-Vertrag.djvu and en:Index:Zwei-Plus-Vier-Vertrag.djvu (also Russian and French) For this work, we have transcribed the pages only on the appropriate subdomain.
We have a case of a English language introduction and footnotes. see en:Index:The New Testament in the original Greek - 1881.djvu. Because this is of significant value even without the English, it has been placed onto el to serve as a set of pagescans for the Greek New Testament. We have already found one error in the text that was in the text of Matthew. I do not know if we should transcribe the main text of this also onto the English Wikisource, and we have yet to decide how to handle the footnotes.
In order to give a better opinion, we would need to know which texts it is. John Vandenberg 10:52, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Some of the works I'm interested in:
  • [8]: Malay language introduction (written in English, but contains substantial amount of Malay)
  • [9]: English-Malay dictionary
Aviator 13:02, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I think that A manual of the Malay language. With an introductory sketch of the Sanskrit element in Malay belongs on English Wikisource, and A vocabulary of the English and Malay languages, in the Roman and Arabic character could go on either English or Malay project. (btw there is a table of contents on leaf 113). As far as I know, proper transcription projects have not been enabled here on wikisource.org. John Vandenberg 10:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Can you import some texts from it?[edit]

Hi, on it.ws there are some texts written in Venetian language... since the vast majority of Venetian texts (more than 1000 pages) is hosted here on oldwiki, is it possible to import the following pages from it, in order to have all Venetian works in the same place? I asked on it.ws, and they agree with the proposal. These are the pages:

  1. it:Canto di pesca
  2. it:Peregrinazioni lagunari
  3. it:E na nana nana nana te canto
  4. it:I piemontesi son partiti
  5. it:Nana bobò
  6. it:Povere filandine
  7. it:De Babilonia civitate infernali
  8. it:De Ierusalem celesti
  9. it:Sirventés lombardesco (Auliver)
  10. it:Ritmo bellunese

Regards, Candalua 13:50, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

I just finished importing their edit history to this portal, less Italian Wikisource templates. Please check if everything is fine. Thanks.--Jusjih 02:39, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Everything is fine. Thank you very much! Candalua 16:55, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Disconnected from global login[edit]

This multilingual portal is disconnected from the global Wikimedia login. I am experiencing this. so I have to log in and out separately. Anyone else experiencing the same problem?--Jusjih 02:00, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

It happened to me quite often in last weeks, -jkb- 08:13, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
To be more precise: it happens not every time when i log out or log in, only sometimes. And, I think, once it happened on Commons, but I am not sure. -jkb- 10:25, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
It hasn't happened to me; perhaps it will. - --Zyephyrus 08:42, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Same problem to me, disconnected here and on Meta. --LadyInGrey 02:25, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I havent noticed it happening to me, but I will pay more attention now. John Vandenberg 01:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I have found a trick while the problem may not have been fully solved. I log in to this multilingual portal then I am also logged in to language subdomains and Wikimedia sister projects. Otherwise, when I logged in elsewhere I had to log in here by entering the password again.--Jusjih 03:20, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Quotes[edit]

At meta:Metapub#On disbanding Wikiquote there is a discussion about closing Wikiquote, and potentially importing the PD content into Wikisource. I have raised this separately on s:en:Wikisource:Scriptorium#Quotes, and I think it is worth discussion on each Wikisource project, and in a central fashion here. John Vandenberg 00:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

It should be surely discussed here. If it would happen so it would not only give us (i.e. each Wikisource subdomain) some new pages, but some new problems as well. We would not only get the pages but also the people who are responisble for the copyvios, more over users who are not common in editing Wikisource and who are more close to Wikipedias. (Apart from this I see some other points like quotes to different themes, what shall we do with languages that do not have an own subdomain etc. but this is to be discussed later). I am not quite happy about the idea. -jkb- 06:40, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
By the way, another problem qould be the question of copyright. The documents in Wikisource must clearly be free. The quotes not in the sense that as in many copyright laws a qoute from a non free work is possible. This difference would make additional problems in judging this. -jkb- 06:43, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
My comments I made on en:s hold here, as well. I think we should not have quotations on this project. The main reason being that of bias and value judgments, which we can largely avoid in WS's current practice. I'm of the opinion that not everything has to have a place on the Wikimedia projects (years of debate about what belongs on WS has made me a bit brittle on this subject), and so if WQ is shut down I see no problem in no one porting over all the content on WQ to "more relevant" projects.—Zhaladshar (Talk) 02:40, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps we should have some kind of box to put away obsolete projects like Wikiquote if closed, a special place (for history) protected once for all, publicly accessible for reading only. This box could be on multilingual ws, in a section that would be quite apart from the living sections..- --Zyephyrus 11:42, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I am not quite sure what you mean. Wikiquote is not obsolete, not at all, see meta:Metapub/On disbanding Wikiquote or s:en:Wikisource:Scriptorium#Quotes. And, if there would be some boxes about it, so they will be surely on meta. It seems there has been a problem on en.quote, but other domains are OK. -jkb- 12:27, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Of course I spoke about en.quote. What I meant was this: it has more to do with wikisource than with meta, because its content is texts by authors; but I agree with what Zhaladshar has said. Quotes is a different project, not to be mixed up with wikisource, and I would place it in an archive apart in wikisource if there is no other place, in order that it be not lost, but not integrated either.- --Zyephyrus 09:57, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

desysops[edit]

I have requested five desysops at Wikisource:Administrators#Vote for removal of administrator privileges. --John Vandenberg 01:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

no objections, -jkb- 06:20, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
No objections either. Yann 10:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
No objections. - --Zyephyrus 10:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
it's fine with me ThomasV 06:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
It's fine, but I will vote later. Despite much lower traffic here after language subdomains have broken away, this domain is still useful.--Jusjih 02:49, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Email on page changes[edit]

On English Wikisource, we have enabled email notification after discussion here, and bugzilla:13386 being created. I propose we add it here also, to increase participation in discussions, and to ensure people are aware of changes to content pages they created a long time ago. John Vandenberg 01:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I do not think I will use it as I do not use it nowhere up to now, but surely for people who do not watch their contributions often it could be a good help. -jkb- 06:31, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Actually this might be a good idea. I don't have it activated on en:s because I have an extensive watchlist full of high volume pages. But I have a much shorter watchlist here and would like to keep in touch with the main things happening on the Scriptorium.—Zhaladshar (Talk) 02:36, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Could be useful. Yann 10:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

bugzilla:15572 created. Please vote. John Vandenberg 07:47, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Configuration done. John Vandenberg 08:59, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Thank you, John.- --Zyephyrus 15:17, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

The quality and counting of subdomains[edit]

In the mailing list there were several mails concerning a possible changes like counting the pages / words etc. of the language subdomains. Apart from the fact that the mailing list some times concerns themes that impact the en.source only, I would say that a discussion on the pages here would be some times better structurable than mailing list. As I followed the discussion in meta about this point concernig wikipedia, I think a discussion on the Scriptorium pages of the multisource could help a bit, simple because it is an interesting theme. -jkb- 19:04, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

There is a need to update the main page, as Persian now needs to be added to the main circle. See Talk:Main_Page#Corrections.
Database words shows a different story, but those stats are out of date. John Vandenberg 07:36, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm really still wondering about the Persian WS, they did something one week and since then it happens quite nothing. But beside this fact, another counting would be probably good as I saw some more projects with robotic crations of thousands of nearly empty pages. Is there anything new with counting the subdomains by words? -jkb- 16:30, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

New subdomain, moving pages[edit]

Ehm, something stopped in developing, see the request Wikisource:Administrators#User:VasilievVV, see li:Veurblaad (obviously created in May, all pages moved at the same time), and see Category:Limburgish. Something should happen with it. -jkb- 20:09, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Subdomain again[edit]

Is it necessary, just like in the incubator to create pages with the language subdomain? Meursault2004 14:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

You mean like having a page in Irish called "wikisource.org/wiki/ga/Title" and a page in Afrikaans called "wikisource.org/wiki/af/Title"? No, pages here are just called "wikisource.org/wiki/Title", but they're included in categories like Category:Gaeilge and Category:Afrikaans to indicate what language they're in. —Angr 06:19, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes indeed, that is what I mean. Because at Incubator it is required to do so. Meursault2004 11:42, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

We do not use prefixes on this wiki as far as I know. A reason against doing it is that the pages will need to be renamed when they are moved to a subdomain.
We could request a new namespaces for each language. John Vandenberg 16:19, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
I have asked the Language subcommittee for guidance about this. John Vandenberg 16:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. Meursault2004 21:54, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
I have no experience with separate / single namespaces for every language and have no idea about hte difference to the present system. Can somebody explain it or give an example? -jkb- 16:25, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps you can take a look at the Incubator: http://incubator.wikimedia.org Meursault2004 17:55, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Chinese Wikisource adopting Proofread Page[edit]

s:zh:User:Wmrwiki has started setting up text on pages. They have two pages. The category names in s:zh:Template:PageQuality need to be translated; translatewiki has some simplified Chinese. Once that is done, can we add them to Wikisource:ProofreadPage_Statistics? --John Vandenberg 03:27, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

to be added to the stats they need a namespace ThomasV 09:27, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I have set up s:zh:索引:致一家英文報刊主編的信, s:zh:Template:Index and asked Jusjih to create the redirect from s:zh:MediaWiki:Proofreadpage index template to s:zh:Template:Index. Once that is done, we can create the bug. We need to know the namespaces to request:

Index = 索引
Index talk = ?
Page = 页面
Page talk = ?

John Vandenberg 11:17, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The redirect is done. What is next?--Jusjih 01:10, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Three more things to do:

  1. We need to know what the four namespaces should be called. I have guessed above what "Index" and "Page" should be called, and we also need to know what "Index talk" and "Page talk" should be called. The zh.ws community might like to chat about these names.
  2. s:zh:MediaWiki:Proofreadpage index namespace and s:zh:MediaWiki:Proofreadpage namespace needs to be set.
  3. someone needs to raise a bug in bugzilla. Like bugzilla:14732 for Greek Wikisource.

John Vandenberg 03:53, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

All the other namespaces at zh-Wikisource seem to be in English ([10], [11], [12], [13]), as indeed they are at zh-Wikipedia ([14], [15], [16], [17]). That being the case, it might make sense to just keep the namespaces "Index", "Index talk", "Page", and "Page talk". —Angr 14:49, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
When prefixing the namespace types other than articles on Chinese Wikimedia sites, we use English because the split of traditional and simplified Chinese makes using Chinese prefixes too hard for now. Would you like me to translate more namespace types to Chinese? If so, I will specify traditional and simplified Chinese.--Jusjih 01:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I have created bugzilla:15722 based on the comments by Angr and Jusjih. John Vandenberg 15:13, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Spanish Wikisource adopting Proofread Page[edit]

Using the namespaces defined in translatewiki, es.ws has creating two index and lots of pages.

I have created bugzilla:15775 to request the namespaces be created:

Page       = Índice
Page talk  = Índice Discusión
Index      = Página
Index talk = Página Discusión

John Vandenberg 09:30, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

John, can you change the bug for this?
Page       = Página
Page talk  = Página Discusión
Index      = Índice
Index talk = Índice Discusión
Changed. -Aleator (talk) 17:12, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Sorry about that. Thank you! John Vandenberg 22:04, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Another one: ca.wikisource needs the same, (pages and index)

Page       = Pàgina
Page talk  = Pàgina Discussió
Index      = Índex
Index talk = Índex Discussió

thanks, --LadyInGrey 15:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


Yes, we were waiting to the end of the period of voting (1 october) to ask for the namespaces (ca:Viquitexts:Presa de decisions/2008/Nous espais de noms). In a few hours it concludes. Now I will open a bugzilla. The namespaces names for :ca should be those:
Page = Pàgina
Page talk = Pàgina Discussió
Index = Llibre
Index talk = Llibre Discussió
Lady, quizás en Wikisource español querráis "Libro" en lugar de "Índice"? Gracias por el aviso, Lady ;). -Aleator (talk) 16:58, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Bugzilla 15784 -Aleator (talk) 17:12, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikisource translations[edit]

s:en:Category:Wikisource translations and s:fr:Catégorie:Traduction Wikisource contain collaborative translations. If the other subdomains accept free translations, could they please add a category for these and interwiki link them together. I see quite a few on Spanish Wikisource that can be grouped together. Russian Wikisource has s:ru:Кутенаи. John Vandenberg 01:31, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

proposal to unify the Index and Page namespaces[edit]

I have started a rough proposal to unify the Index and Page namespaces: Wikisource:Unify transcription namespaces

I believe this will simplify the transcription system, making it more friendly to new users. Feel free to contribute or critise it. John Vandenberg 18:30, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

English language on Thai wiki[edit]

s:th:เพลงคริสต์มาส is a list of Christmas carols in the English language, and s:th:Auld Lang Syne is another. Should it be acceptable for projects to have texts in other languages? There are benefits like s:th:Boar's Head Carol adding footnotes in Thai, and s:th:ผู้แต่ง:เบน จอนสัน giving Thai readers a better experience than s:en:Author:Ben Jonson. John Vandenberg 13:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Welcome image[edit]

Hi, the image of the Template:Welcome seems to have disappeared. (It was Image:Reading.gif). Il have put a provisional one. - --Zyephyrus 15:29, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

First, just now since some 10000 seconds some servers are down, secondly, today or tommorow the namespace for IMAGE will be changed to FILE (with an allias). So just wait what happens. -jkb- 15:55, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Wikimedia Commons deleted the previous image per commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/Images_of_Paulwhiteway due to copyright dispute. It is still linked from so many pages in so many Wikimedia sites. Hopefully a bot will delink them as I cannot do it manually.--Jusjih 23:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
I emailed "Paulwhiteway" when commonsdelinker did its magic; I hope he can prove the images are his. I havent seen a reply (yet). John Vandenberg 02:29, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Bugs and Butterflys[edit]

Please help build:

John Vandenberg 09:28, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Quite a very good idea - you have my support, -jkb- 13:58, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Mine too! - --Zyephyrus 21:57, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Author namespace[edit]

While importing {{no header}}, I realised that we dont have an Author namespace here.

Wikisource:Subdomain coordination says that oldwikisource does not have an Author namespace, however we have a lot of pages with a prefix prefix.

Special:PrefixIndex/Author
Special:PrefixIndex/Autor

These pages have been mostly created by Candalua (talkcontribs) for Category:Vèneto, however Author:Mohandas K. Gandhi was created by Yann back in September 2004.

We need some structure to manage Author pages because

  1. some text will always remain on oldwikisource
  2. incubating projects should create and manage Author pages, and we should help them

I have restored Category:Authors.

Do we want an "Author" namespace on this wiki? John Vandenberg 03:49, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Proofread Page on oldwikisource[edit]

I think we should request to have mw:Extension:Proofread Page enabled on oldwikisource for two reasons:

  • There are digitised works in languages that may never accepted to have a subdomain
  • Incubated language projects should use this extension here before they start a new subdomain project.

We will attract more scholarly contributors to oldwikisource if they are able to proofread scanned images.

For example, there are a lot of works on archive.org that are in Category:Volapük, and also Javanese, which has an active team of contributors here. John Vandenberg 06:56, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree, they ought to have it too.- --Zyephyrus 08:52, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Aviator 05:50, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. --LadyInGrey 16:49, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Agreed. I'd like it for Irish, which is here. —Angr 08:10, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Agreed. Every Wikisource schould sooner or later start to improve the quality (not only the quantity), and this feature helps to do that. And, if the languages start to get used of it here, so they will have an advantage to continue later. However, I am not sure if there could be a problem. I had a look at the German Wikisource where they use it and I am not sure if 1. there will not be a chaos when more languages use this system at the same time (including the new special name spaces), and 2. if it will be possible to transfer all done work to a new subdomain (when it is created later). Might be somebody who has more experience could answer these questions. Otherwise: support. -jkb- 12:44, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Has anyone filed a bug at bugzilla yet? What's the current status of this proposal? It's been quite months now.. I think we should give this a go already. Aviator 14:40, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Dear all, I've taken the freedom to ask for the extension at Bugzilla 19534. Six agrees and one more by me (specially interested on Euskara, Occitan, Aragonese and Asturianu scans). If I have missed a discussion by which it is not desirable the proofread extension at oldwikisource, make me know; else, vote for it ;) -Aleator (talk) 17:10, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Great. Thank you! John Vandenberg 10:30, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  • support ThomasV 12:48, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

enable subpages in main namespace on all subdomains[edit]

In 2005, Wikibooks enabled subpages on all subdomains. See meta:Wikibooks should use subpages, meta:Help:Link#Subpage activation and bugzilla:1353.

I think Wikisource should do the same for oldwikisource and all sub-domains if possible. If there is no objections, we should raise this for discussion at meta:Meta:Babel to solicit opinions from the other projects.

Are there any sub-domains that dont want subpages in the main namespace? John Vandenberg 09:10, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

In Russian wikisource subpages in the main namespace already enabled. -- Sergey kudryavtsev 10:21, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the data at (very large file) noc: InitialiseSettings.php for variable "$wgNamespacesWithSubpages", these wikis have subpages enabled:

cs, en, he, hu, id, it, ml, no, pt, ru, tr, vi, and zh

Many are missing, and oldwikisource is also missing. John Vandenberg 11:06, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

The subpages feature is very usefull for Wikisources and shoud be done here and recomended to other subdomains. -jkb- 11:23, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
enabled, see here, -jkb- 14:04, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
This doesnt appear to have worked for oldwikisource. Moving Jv/Alkitab should ask whether the user wishes to move all subpages as well. John Vandenberg 00:27, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Rights. It should appear. But does not. I have just tried a move in de.source, where it was not enabled before, and there is the question. Probably we have some problems again with our multisource like in the question of interwikis. -jkb- 00:42, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Copyright of the logo?[edit]

Anyone know what the licensing on Image:Wiki.png is? John Reaves 22:54, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I believe commons:Image:Wikisource-newberg-de.png is the original. John Vandenberg 00:33, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

database did not find the text of a page[edit]

this question by User:Vsrawat has been moved to here from my talk page - -jkb- 08:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


http://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%A4%8B%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A6:_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%82_1.36
http://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%A4%8B%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A6:_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%82_1.38
http://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%A4%8B%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A6:_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%82_1.50

The above links are appearing in Uncategorized Pages, but when I go to them, it says like > The database did not find the text of a page that it should have found, named "ऋग्वेद: सूक्तं 1.50" . > This is usually caused by following an outdated diff or history link to a page that has been deleted. > If this is not the case, you may have found a bug in the software. Please report this to an administrator, making note of the URL.

hence reporting to you. Please suggest what is to be done. I have otherwise removed the problems of some 400 Pages of Hindi/ Sanskrit that were listed in Uncategorized Pages yesterday.

(not signed, by User:Vsrawat)


Some special pages like this one are coming from cache so that you have to wait a bit for updating. Probably it is the case. -jkb- 08:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
bugzilla:16674 --Brion VIBBER 18:32, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
thanks, -jkb- 19:15, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

why should category redirect appear in uncategorized categories?[edit]

The following two categories are appearing in the special pages uncategorized categories:
19. # Category:रवींद्रनाथ टैगोर
20. # Category:रवींद्रनाथ ठाकुर

As there were three categories for the same person (different spellings of name), I have used a category redirect of

Redirect arrow without text.svg

This category is located at Category:रवीन्द्रनाथ टैगोर

Note: This category should be empty. Any content should be recategorized.
This tag should be used on existing categories that are likely to be used by others, even though the "real" category is elsewhere. It should not be used on categories that are misspellings and thus unlikely to be used by other people. Such categories should be tagged as: {{bad name|Category:correct category name}}.

so that the above two get redirected to this correct spelling.


Why is it still showing these two in "uncategorized categories"?

Thanks.
-Vsrawat

The template apparently does not exist. And those category pages are really uncategorized - just check their source.
Danny B. 11:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

What is Cross-namespace links and how to resolve it?[edit]


There is a special page called "Cross-namespace links".

What does it imply and what is the solution for the pages appearing in it?

Thanks.

-Vsrawat

Eg. pages in Wikisource: namespace linking to Help namespace. Intended mainly for main namespace to not to link to other namespaces - such links should be done via URL syntax.
Danny B. 11:13, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Special pages that are not being updated[edit]

What is the purpose of showing the following Special Pages that are last updated months ago and are not being updated any more?
- Cross-namespace links
- Dead-end pages
etc.

Shouldn't they be removed altogether if nothing needs to be done on that?

-Vsrawat

Known issue. They might be updated once in longer time (say monthly or once every quarter). They're off because of performance reasons. Re the removal: There's bug filed about visible labeling of all special pages - lists with labels like "cached", "off", "ad hoc" or so.
Danny B. 11:19, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

How to "sign" my scriptorium posts?[edit]

In the posts of other members, I see their username linked to their Talk pages and the date/ time appearing. These are not appearing when I am posting a message.

Is there any method to get this info automatically appended to my posts?

-Vsrawat

Dear Vsrawat, namaskar.

To 'sign' with date and time,you have to enter --~~~~ , or click on edit menu button, 2nd from right. Thanks. --Ashok modhvadia 10:12, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Pages without language links[edit]

I had updated the language Category in these Pages on 14th Dec and some already have at least one language earlier also but these are still appearing in the Special Pages without language links? What gives?

Thanks.
- http://wikisource.org/wiki/User_talk:Vsrawat

Language category (such as [[Category:Hindi]]) is not the interwiki link, which would be eg. [[en:<pagename>]] to link to English pages. Categories are for local categorization here (and such category won't be necessary once the new Wikisource in your language will be created), interwiki links are for pointing to the same document in other language.
Danny B. 11:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

"Pages without language links" is tooooo long and is not shown fully[edit]

Seems that Pages without language links has more entries but it showing only first 5000 entries. Further, we can browse it in chunks of 20-500, so it takes lot of next-next to reach the end of list (where my Unicode language Hindi/Sanksrit's entries are supposed to appear).

The option should be provided to directly start browsing from some particular no. onwards (say, 2000, 4500, etc.) for quicker browsing, and the remaining entries should be shown.

Thanks. http://wikisource.org/wiki/User_talk:Vsrawat

You can browse the entire list without pagination.
Danny B. 11:22, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

How to know length of the page we are creating/editing?[edit]

The Long pages does show pages sized more than 1MB and it can be understood that these would take a lot of time to view and to get saved while editing.

1. is there any norm (thumb rule) for the ideal max size of a wiki page that we/users should try to limit their pages to?

IMHO, 50 to 100 KB is OK. Yann 11:26, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

(Note: My language is Unicode Hindi/Sanskrit that keeps each character in two bytes, so the pages do go long even when the displayed content is not that long.)

2. When we create a page, there should be some option/ button/ keyboard shortcut that we click/type and the size of the page gets displayed so that we can split it to various pages to keep its size within tolerable limits. At least, the page size should be shown at the time of creating/ updating/ saving, so that we can know right there that we have created a giant that would be inconvenient to view for people.

Go to the "Page History" where the size is revised after each edit. Eclecticology 08:18, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

3. Wiki should give some option in which if click something like "split" on a page, it is automatically broken into individual pages of a tolerable size as per wiki norm, and an Index/ Menu is automatically created giving links of each page thus created.

The software can't know where to split the pages, but there is a "gadget" which might help. See the English Wikisource for examples. Yann 11:26, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

4. Also, Long pages list needs to be sorted. It is very inconvenient to look at the entire list to find out the pages in our languages' scripts.

Thanks.
http://wikisource.org/wiki/User_talk:Vsrawat

You are doing a great work on Sanskrit. Regards, Yann 11:26, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I want to make a new namespace named "figure:"[edit]

W:Twenty-Four_Histories records a lot of people,and may be another book touch on them or them may be also write some books,I want to collect them in one page,"figure:".How about?--Wmrwiki 12:38, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

special pages do say that they have got updated but I see the same information appearing in them days after days.

- On Broken redirects page, the following entries are appearing as crossed, that means they have got resolved and should be removed but they continue appearing.

  1. User:Seha
  2. User talk:Erwin
  3. User:Julian Mendez
  4. User:Synthebot
  5. User talk:Julian Mendez
  6. User talk:Synthebot

- On Uncategorized pages, the following entries are appearing which are OK pages, but they continue appearing. Some were also reported earlier in scriptorium.

  1. अरण्यकांड
  2. ऋग्वेद: सूक्तं 1.36
  3. ऋग्वेद: सूक्तं 1.38
  4. ऋग्वेद: सूक्तं 1.50
  5. कहानियाँ
  6. बालकांड

- On Uncategorized categories, the following entries are appearing which are actually ok redirect pages, still they continue appearing:

  1. Category:रवींद्रनाथ टैगोर
  2. Category:रवींद्रनाथ ठाकुर

Seems there is some problem in wiki maintenance or wiki software. Wiki should provide correct information promptly so that people can help correct it.
-Rawat 13:48, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

"Uncategorized pages" and "Broken redirects" are irregularly updated, not real time information, because of performance issues. Yann 23:46, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Why do we need categories for each of individual writer?[edit]

There are 100s and 1000s of individual writers. It would create a mess if we have categories for each and every writer. And if we have categories for some, it would put remaining ones who don't have categories in lesser vain. I suggest that all the categories of individual writers be removed.-Rawat 09:27, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

It is useful when a writer has a lot of small independent works (i.e. poems), then a category is the easiest way to have a complete alphabetical list. Yann 23:43, 23 December 2008 (UTC)