Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/Jan 2009 - Dec 2009

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Official works like edicts of governments still copyrighted at home[edit]

In addition to #Pre-1923 works that are public domain in the USA but still copyrighted in their home countries now accepted here if forbidden by language subdomains, I would like to raise a concern of official text like edicts of governments still copyrighted at home. Most countries and areas copyrighting their edicts of governments officially speak English and possibly other languages. English Wikisource has s:Template:PD-EdictGov for official works considered by the US Copyright Office Practices to be ineligible for copyright even if they are still copyright-restricted at home. After intensive debates, some of these works were once deleted when considering the source country copyright, but they were undeleted after applying § 206.01 of the Compendium II: Copyright Office Practices while most users of English Wikisource users are Americans and non-American users have not raised major objections.

However, hosting edicts of governments still copyrighted at home may be unwise at other language subdomains. For example, Chinese Wikisource probably has at least Mainland China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan as the countries and areas where the project content is predominantly accessed defined by wmf:Resolution:Licensing policy. Whether to host Hong Kong edicts of governments still copyrighted there would cause more concern than on English Wikisource, so I am hosting a policy vote. For now, I do not expect hosting copyrighted Hong Kong edicts of governments on Chinese Wikisource feasible.

After all, I would like to propose allowing this multilingual portal to host edicts of governments still copyrighted at home and rejected by language subdomains due to "local" copyright concerns and policies. Any comments? If no major objections here, I will make necessary copyright tags to explain why host them here but not language subdomains.--Jusjih 03:36, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

After waiting for several weeks, hosting edicts of governments still copyrighted at home has been passed 4-2 on Chinese Wikisource, so I will not bring Hong Kong edicts of governments still copyrighted there to this portal.--Jusjih 04:03, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Collection extension[edit]

Are there plans to implement the Collections extension for us (wikisource.org) as well? Anrie 12:43, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

see bugzilla:15970, -jkb- 13:42, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
As reported in mailing list it has been anabled for all Wikisources and - I hope - should be seen soon in the toolbox. -jkb- 08:52, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
See bugzilla:15970 - we have been forgotten :-) but now it is here. Enjoy, -jkb- 21:51, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Gadgets[edit]

Would it be okay to copy a gadget or two to MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition? It would really help some of the more time-consuming, tedious things I need to do. Anrie 17:12, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

can you describe them a bit? If they are OK and if nobody protests so i can edit them in the page (it is open to admins only). -jkb- 17:37, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
Well, the one I recently discovered, that could be very helpful is an editing gadget called [wikiEd]. The content of [1] will need to be copied to our MediaWiki:Gadget-wikEd.js and then linked to from MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition. I don't see how anyone can protest too much - if you want to use it, you'll have to say so in your preferences. Other people won't even notice it, since it's not installed in the Monobook.js. Anrie 19:29, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
OK I'll do it this evening or tomorrow, then you will have it. Cheers, -jkb- 16:31, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
So, I've implemented the wikEd tool here and hope it works (the page is some 360 kB long). Cheers, -jkb- 11:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
-jkb- Thanks! ---Zyephyrus 13:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Excellent! Thank you very much, jkb. Anrie 16:41, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
The pleasure is on my side :-), -jkb- 16:10, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Limburgish[edit]

Limburgish has its own Wikisource edition since May 2008. The texts were imported on that wiki. But the old ones (355 pages) are still present here. See Category:Limburgish. Shouldn't they be deleted? --::Slomox:: >< 17:59, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

yep, see [2], -jkb- 21:07, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Applying the text advancement to other wikis[edit]

Hello, I'm a User in the Arabic Wikisource and was wondering how I would put the button of text advancement in the edit menu to the Arabic wikisource. Applying this would help a lot in knowing the quality of Pages and is tremendously needed. Thanks a lot.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 13:29, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

You have an answer here.---Zyephyrus 20:24, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikimania 2009[edit]

Wikimania 2009, this year's global event devoted to Wikimedia projects around the globe, is accepting submissions for presentations, workshops, panels, posters, open space discussions, and artistic works related to the Wikimedia projects or free content topics in general. The conference will be held from August 26-28 in Buenos Aires, Argentina. For more information, check the official Call for Participation. Cbrown1023 talk 18:25, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

me and the mutation[edit]

As some people asked me what's going on hereby I make a short statement concerning my edit on the Czech Wikisource beginning of November 2008 announcing my "75-%-wikibreak" there.
Since say 2007, as there were more and more tensions on the Czech Wikipedia (RfC's and Arbcom's on mobbing and other problems, desysopings, personalizing of problems, other conflicts) I decreased my activity there and concentrated myself on cs.source. But by the time and since spring 2008 the conflicts swapped into the Wikisource subdomain. People who did not work in the subdomain tried to take influence on different questions; two admins of the cs.wiki accused me to be a dictator and the cs.source (i.e. me) should censore free meanings (more times contributed by two admins there, my request to clear this had no influence; this is quite serious as the cs.source needed new users); attempts to unify cs.source with other Czech projects were made, in the same time my wording "Czech Wikisource is a subdomain of the multilingual one" was reverted several times to a "Czech mutation"; after I deleted some 25 long time copyvios in October I was accused (BTW by one of the leading members of the Czech branch of the Wikimedia Foundation) that I decreased the value of the subdomain by fifty per cent (there are some 7000 pages); also in November the second bureaucrat (with some other people - ???) started an inquiry about the future of Wikisource - I got notice of it from an announcement in Scriptorium (my question, why nobody contacted me before is still without an answer, as well I do not know the results); etc. etc. etc.
Additionally, I strongly do not agree when not active users - or even IP's - take influence on the future of the subdomain (posting bugs for new namespaces etc. without a consensus, after some IP's and not active users decided it); I do not agree when when conflicts from outside are imported.
This is only a very short and simple (and probably POV) description of what happens on the Czech projects. Anyway, there must be a point to stop after I took part there since May 2004 although living in Germany; and I'm not like to colaborate with users (e.g. the second bureaucrat), who are reverting my former approved edits as "infantilities". After a long time of thinking about it I rejected my first decission, I will not stop being active on Wikimedia project. But I have to find new priorities.
Thus, I do not see any chance to take influence on the development there, and thus I cannot take the responisbility there after November 1st 2008. I keep my bct rights however. And, I would not like to see any imports of problems I mentioned to this domain. -jkb- 21:18, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Probably many copyrigt violations here[edit]

I think there is a lack of information and control about possible copyright violations - here and also on some subdomains, primarilly on the small ones. We have to find a sollution, but I do not know which one. I noticed a discussion on meta at m:Wikimedia Forum#Copyright policy on Albanian Wikipedia (after archiving: February 2009) and I followed also on the Albanian Wiki (oh gosh, the google translator is a unbelieviable horrible innovation), then I discovered some possible Copyvios (images + texts) here, too (see User talk:Tufche#Question on possible copyvios and User talk:Cradel#please see...). I will work on it this week, I gues the images and the texts must be tagged as copyvios, but there is a lot of another albanian pages which I do not understand and further pages which are a sort of "analysis" and "fragments" - I am very sceptical about this.

However, in the past we did not look at this problem, when a language section had a sufficient amount of pages a new subdomain was created. We assumed that the users learned something on copyright in the Wikipedias. But now it seems to me to be a mistake. Sure, languages like Limburgish or Upper Sorbian have no problem - they learn it e.g. in the German Wikipedia. But not all. And I am not sure whether we know how many copyrigt violations we host on this domain. Probably many ones. I am not sure how to solve this problem - just discuss. -jkb- 21:22, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I generally agree that many people have no idea about copyright issues, so a lot of copyrighted texts are published on Wikisource. The fact that, according to Mike Godwin, Wikimedia Foundation layer, any text should be public domain in USA, that the USA do not recognize the rule of shorter term, and that the copyright of many foreign texts were restored by URAA make explaining copyright issues very difficult. It is also difficult to do something when the language is not understood. Yann 21:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree that it is quite difficult here when we do not understand the most languages (so I do not). But, when I click on the links and see that the text comes from a living author born 1960 and when I do not find a notice (and an OTRS-mail, I can read them) that he or she allows the text under the PD conditions, so I can assume it is a copyvio. And I am like to tag some ones. -jkb- 16:05, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Albanian copyvios[edit]

As I announced above (#Probably many copyrigt violations here) I will have to tag some more files and pages as copyvios. See

Please see there for further discussion, thanks, -jkb- 11:57, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

revisionjumper (gadget)[edit]

I have installed today here a provisory version of so called revisionjumper by w:de:User:DerHexer. In the next days we shall continue to work on it and so I hope we shall have a manual soon. I guess it will be installed on en.wiki soon as well. The German manual is to be found here: w:de:Benutzer:DerHexer/revisionjumper, the English manual will be soon at Wikisource:Revisionjumper. Test it, you can find it in the preferences, active there the gadget revisionjumper. Please use the page Wikisource talk:Revisionjumper to give us your experience with it. -jkb- 18:49, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Admin is needed[edit]

Dear Colleagues! Hungarian Wikisource page surpassed the Thai one, see Husource. Please see to it, that this Wikisource gets in the circle on the front page of Wikisource. We are very happy to congratulate our Hungarian friends!! --Burumbátor 08:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

First, congratulations for it. And then, I personally do not know how to handle it: the statistics say thai 12636, hungarian 12659, polish 12550 (just now) that means that we could change it very often in the next days. Wait for another admins what they say. Go on, -jkb- 09:26, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I will not update it, because there is an ongoing discussion on changing the main page. see this discussion, and the mailing list. ThomasV 11:27, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

You know it. Concerning frequent updating: Thai wiki moves one article/week, Polish wiki moves 10 articles/week, Hungarian wikisource moves 300 articles/month. But again, you know it, I cannot read all long discussions, just drew your attention: in the circle now there is a wikisource (Thai), which is already superseeded by another one, thus does not represent the real statistics. Regards, --Burumbátor 17:11, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

After 3 days: Hungarian 12,828, Thai still 12,636, Polish: 12,522. --89.237.252.122 10:45, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done There is significant growth here, and while the discussions continue the Hungarians can enjoy their time in the sun. John Vandenberg 13:02, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, boys! :) We want to enjoy a few days in the sun, and I think the guys really made a very important effort, all legal texts! By now it is 12,898...
Thanks again! --Burumbátor 15:38, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia on the wheels[edit]

We seem to have a new Wikipedia here in Wikisource. Today, I saw by a chance the new page Main Page:Peçenek, then I had a look at the Category:Pecheneg which is full of subcategories and articles. I controlled some ten or twelve, the most of them from January or February 2009, and I am sure, somebody created here a new Wikipedia, not Wikisource. What now? -jkbx- 08:11, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

notice and delete, imo ThomasV 10:56, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


See Wikisource:Proposed deletions, -jkbx- 18:21, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Aeres[edit]

I'd propose to delete Main Page:Aeres and the whole project. It's a made-up language and the inventor isn't working on it anymore. Is there any reason to keep projects like that? --::Slomox:: >< 16:40, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


See Wikisource:Proposed deletions, -jkbx- 18:21, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Czornaruski[edit]

And what's the language of Category:Czornaruski? Google knows "Czornaruski" only as a surname. --::Slomox:: >< 17:00, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


See Wikisource:Proposed deletions, -jkbx- 18:21, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Middle Dutch[edit]

And Category:Middle Dutch is completely covered by the Dutch Wikisource. The test project should be deleted. --::Slomox:: >< 17:03, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

See Wikisource:Proposed deletions, -jkbx- 18:21, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Bot run[edit]

I'd like to bot create a series of information templates about writers for the Low Saxon test project. It's a list of 630 pages. Should I apply for bot status (where?) or does anybody else with a bot-flag do the bot run for me? --::Slomox:: >< 20:41, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Or should I just go ahead without flag? --::Slomox:: >< 13:59, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
I can give you bot flag; please create a separate user for the bot ThomasV 15:11, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
My bot account is User:Slobot. --::Slomox:: >< 22:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

it is summer time...[edit]

A little bit new feature: in the preferences you can choose your time zone, then you do not have to change the difference to the UTC even when the winter time changes to summer time. it should function. -jkb- 11:58, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikimania 2009: Scholarships[edit]

Wikimania 2009, this year's global event devoted to Wikimedia projects around the globe, is now accepting applications for scholarships to the conference. This year's conference will be handled from August 26-28 in Buenos Aires, Argentina. The scholarship can be used to help offset the costs of travel and registration. For more information, check the official information page. Please remember that the Call for Participation is still open, please submit your papers! Without submissions, Wikimania would not be nearly as fun! - Rjd0060 02:20, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

OTRS[edit]

Since maybe 2006 or 2007 I have the OTRS access, that I requested for me as user of the cs.source. I am not quite sure if this will be important here in the future, but maybe we could discuss if it would be advantageous to have a own OTRS address for the Oldwikisource or for all wikisources. To request it schould be easy. We could decide who should request the access for this channel (as OTRS is divided in many ones), I can do it by myself as well. What about it? -jkb- 16:57, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

If current OTRS is too crowded, I have no objection having a separate Wikisource OTRS. As you are also a Wikilivres: administrator, your OTRS access also helps that Canadian site to help bypass some USA-specific copyright problems on Wikisource, as I no of no other Wikilivres administrator having OTRS access.--Jusjih 19:24, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Possible documents for import[edit]

For enWS, I have been working through. There are a number of documents at that page that are tagged that actually are in non-English, and may be worth considering to be imported here. They are not marked according to language. -- Billinghurst 07:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Acknowledged, but English ones should be imported to English Wikisource if acceptable here. Others may be imported here if no subdomains may take them. If any is not copyright-okay, just delete without importing.--Jusjih 04:13, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

When Candalua is editing...[edit]

... :-) or another very active user here, it is quite difficult to follow the recent changes. Please see bugzilla:15595 and support it, it could be helpfull. -jkb- 16:11, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Bugs after software refresh[edit]

There will be some more bugs, I guess, but this one could be specific fot Wikisource: the autosumm messages do not work her, although they work on the German Wikipedia. See my edit here, this should have appeared. -jkb- 16:52, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Import from Incubator[edit]

Hello, on Incubator we have currently at least two Wikisources. A Coptic and an Ancient Greek one. They should be transferred to here. On Special:ListUsers/import I see User:Jusjih is the only importer. He could do that, or if nobody objects I could ask import access at m:rfp so I can do it myself. (I'm used to import, I often do it when new wikis are created.) Thanks, SPQRobin 23:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

You mean the 30 pages listed at http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:AllPages prefixed Ws/cop and Ws/grc, right? I have imported the edit history of these 30 pages. Please check. When moving to rename them, it is possible to suppress the redirect from the old page name if you prefer. It seems that administrator may import now, while import flag may be issued to non-administrator. I got the import flag when administrators could not import yet.--Jusjih 01:43, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi. I'm an editor from Ws/cop on incubator and I have reviewed all of the imports. From what I see, they are almost certainly as they should be, but, as you said, the pages here still require moves/renames, and the categories as well require renames & subsequent creations to fit with Oldwikisource. Also, I see that the templates (except for any foreign ones meant only for incubator) all need to be compatible with that of the original in order to function properly. Perhaps the first thing is to do is move the main page(s) to the correct title? ~Troy 03:43, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
PS: I have just noticed that one thing was left out—talk pages. (See the prefix index for Ws/cop & Ws/grc.) Should the same be done for those? ~Troy 06:13, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
FYI: as far as I know the transwiki import (possible to every admin) has been disabled since months, but even if now enabled, it is enabled for import from some 20 wikisource subdomains, not from the incubator (bug would be necessary). The import upload (i.e. what Jusjih did today via file at the local PC) can be done by Jusjih only. -jkb- 08:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Indeed, according to Special:ListGroupRights.
Btw, you could've edited the XML file to change the titles, as I usually do when importing. That's much easier than renaming all those pages. Anyway it's too late now :-) SPQRobin 10:22, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, you are right when you edit a XML file with one article, that's quite easy, but when you import more articles at once it is rather irritating to edit and change it. -jkb- 11:32, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
A simple find and replace :-) SPQRobin 16:01, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
-) might be when you're exporting Dutch or English pages. But did you ever try to export a XLM file with some mor Coptic pages like Jusjih did today? Normally, how will you search and replace  with  when you do not have a Coptic characters and if you will controll what you are doing? :-) I have tried it now, it is similar to Czech pages etc. The xml file is not to be read. -jkb- 16:17, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
You're probably right, because I can view Coptic characters and I can tell you right now that those weren't copied right. I can't even see these characters in their native font (?????????). So, it may not be that bad to rename the files directly on Wikisource rather than to edit the XML files. (Besides, there are a couple of conflicting templates that weren't an issue on incubator.) ~Troy 17:06, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I haven't had any such problems yet. I can always download fonts so I can view it. Anyway the most important is that they are imported now, not the way how they were imported :-) SPQRobin 19:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Quite true. And it's good that most/all of the data looks unharmed here. After the page/cat/template renames, it should look good as new ;) ~Troy 19:47, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Request for Coptic characters in Edittools[edit]

Can somebody edit MediaWiki:Edittools to allow for Coptic characters (per the Unicode Standard for Coptic and Demotic Coptic characters, respectively)? The Coptic Wikisource Project was just transferred from Incubator where we had Coptic Unicode insert characters before. Now that it's here, it would be very useful and even necessary to have them here in order to type more conveniently and effectively. Here are the characters according to the latest Unicode Standard for Coptic characters:

Ⲁ ⲁ Ⲃ ⲃ Ⲅ ⲅ Ⲇ ⲇ Ⲉ ⲉ Ⲋ ⲋ Ⲍ ⲍ Ⲏ ⲏ Ⲑ ⲑ Ⲓ ⲓ Ⲕ ⲕ Ⲗ ⲗ Ⲙ ⲙ Ⲛ ⲛ Ⲝ ⲝ Ⲟ ⲟ Ⲡ ⲡ Ⲣ ⲣ Ⲥ ⲥ Ⲧ ⲧ Ⲩ ⲩ Ⲫ ⲫ Ⲭ ⲭ Ⲯ ⲯ Ⲱ ⲱ Ⲳ ⲳ Ⲵ ⲵ Ⲷ ⲷ Ⲹ ⲹ Ⲻ ⲻ Ⲽ ⲽ Ⲿ ⲿ Ⳁ ⳁ Ⳃ ⳃ Ⳅ ⳅ Ⳇ ⳇ Ⳉ ⳉ Ⳋ ⳋ Ⳍ ⳍ Ⳏ ⳏ Ⳑ ⳑ Ⳓ ⳓ Ⳕ ⳕ Ⳗ ⳗ Ⳙ ⳙ Ⳛ ⳛ Ⳝ ⳝ Ⳟ ⳟ Ⳡ ⳡ Ⳣ ⳣ ⳤ ⳥ ⳦ ⳧ ⳨ ⳩ ⳪ ⳹ ⳺ ⳻ ⳼ ⳽ ⳾ ⳿ Ϣ ϣ Ϥ ϥ Ϧ ϧ Ϩ ϩ Ϫ ϫ Ϭ ϭ Ϯ ϯ

So, please include it in Edittools in the same format as the other languages. Thanks, ~Troy 01:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

To avoid problems: as i cannot read the characters, I would need a link or a hint how they were included on the incubator, then i could try. -jkb- 21:10, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Good idea. I happened to look for it just in case before I asked. Here is the first reference to a request being made, and the discussion here carried on in SPQRobin's talk page. SPQRobin told me to request for it here on the Multilingual Wikisource so that a local sysop could do the job. Btw, the Edittools page on incubator is ordered differently than the one here, so I think it might be a little more of a challenge to re-format it into this style. As I can read the characters, I could try to do it myself on my Sandbox and let you transfer it, if you wish. ~Troy 23:13, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
I have done it, but now please have a look at it for I see ??????? only :-), -jkb- 12:07, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
I have taken a look at it, and it worked fine on Firefox, but not Internet Explorer. I have fixed it, however. Unless I have missed something, it should work fine now. Can you please copy the current version now? Thanks. ~Troy 22:34, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
I meant this revision, to be precise. If one were to have just one of the fonts, than it should be displayed correctly as shown there. ~Troy 01:09, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
OK, done, pls controll, regards -jkb- 13:11, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, it should be better now. Since it's cluttered a bit, it would make sense for us to consider drop-down menus. I will notify you if we need anything otherwise. Cheers, ~Troy 22:52, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

ancient greek[edit]

who decided that ancient greek should go on ws.org? are ancient greek texts refused at el.wikisource ? ThomasV 04:58, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

It will be decided by the language committee whether Ancient Greek should go on el.wikisouce or if it should have its own project. Meanwhile it should stay here. SPQRobin 07:43, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Some details about grc.wikisource.org are here meta:Language committee/Status/ws/grc (if it succed, I will probably ask for fro and/or frm wikisources). Cdlt, VIGNERON 15:31, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Do not restore files at the moment[edit]

There seems to be a bug: after restoring a file this is deleted but not restored / archived so that it is lost (when I understood it well). See tech blog and the talk on de.wiki here. The problem should be solved soon. -jkb- 09:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

== Hotcat ==

Hi, does anyone know why Hotcat script doesn't work here? I've added it to my monobook, cleared history & etc, but it doesn't work either. --George Mel 11:36, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Proposing some functions for all Wikisource domains[edit]

I would like to propose two functions to potentially benefit all Wikisource domains, including this multilingual portal and language subdomains:

  1. As Wikimedia-wide announcements are sometimes made, I would like to propose enabling Wikisource-wide announcements when needed. For example, if what I write at MediaWiki:Sitenotice about acceptance of pre-1923 works copyrighted at home can be announced Wikisource-wide, more users will more likely report their local policies and de facto practices.
  2. As Wikisource domains may have works in the public domain in some countries and areas but still copyright-restricted without licenses compatible with CC or GFDL, I would like to propose enabling either of the following Wikisource-wide:
    Collapsible pages may warn that works within the collapsible portions of pages are OK in Florida, USA where Wikisource server is located, but possibly copyright-restricted elsewhere. The situations may be explained outside the collapsible portions.
    Floating messages may also warn the different copyright status in different parts of the world, but I am unsure how to do this.

To make examples why the second proposal to warn different copyright status around the world is important:

  1. English Wikisource has many texts public domain in the USA but still copyright-restricted in most other countries and areas. Applying the second proposal may better protect non-US users from unintentionally violating copyright in their home jurisdictions and better comply with wmf:Resolution:Licensing_policy regarding the law of countries where the project content is predominantly accessed.
  2. French Wikisource also has some texts public domain in the USA but still copyright-restricted in France. Applying the second proposal is even more important for users in France. Works by those died for France get 30 years of extra copyright term in addition to regular term of life + 70 years until year end.
  3. Without applying the second proposal yet, Chinese Wikisource considers it undesirable to host pre-1923 texts still copyright-restricted in Greater China copyrighting for life + 50 (70 in Singapore with the rule of the shorter term) years until year end. Yet works public domain in USA and Taiwan but copyright-restricted in Hong Kong and Singapore, such as Hong Kong and Singaporean legal texts, are accepted though discouraged.

Hopefully someone skillful is able to enable my proposed functions to better serve all Wikisource domains. Thanks in advance.--Jusjih 03:02, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

if chinese wikisource considers it undesirable to host pre-1923 texts still copyrighted in PRC, why should these texts be hosted at ws.org ?
I have blanked the notice because it has been there for a very long time; it should not stay forever.
I think that collapsable pages is a much better solution than to refuse to host texts at subdomains.
ThomasV 08:13, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
First my remark to point 1, general sitenotices for all WS subdomains. OK, why not, but unfortunately we should not expect a great impact as the most subdomains have no tight relationship to the "mother" oldwikisource (my opinion). But nevertheless I vote with Yes.
Point 2, collapsible parts of texts. I am not sure what is the situation de jure, and there fore I am not sure if it helps in every case. In fact it remembers me on similar warnings on different internet websites, where you for the first time cannot see what the show, but after you klick on "I declare I am over 16 - OK" you get simply in. Might be we should continue like it is (pre-1923-works on oldwikisource), and when somebody thinks it would be better, we can collaps all these texts here. Regards, -jkb- 10:03, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Enabling collapsible pages is important to allow language subdomains to host texts in their languages when still copyright-restricted in countries where the project content is predominantly accessed. Does anyone know how to enable it? Once enabled, pre-1923 Chinese texts still copyright-restricted in Greater China can be sent out of here. My idea requires some coordination with subdomains once they have broken away and some do not even have formal copyright policies.--Jusjih 00:24, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Well it will concern some languages like Chinese, English, French etc. I use the collapsible templates in the German Wikipedia (see [3]), normally they use a template Navigationsleiste, see also the interwikis there, but to install it you must also make some changes in monobook.css etc. Regards, -jkb- 23:59, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Wikisource news[edit]

The pages Wikisource:2005 to Wikisource:2009 were initially intended to favor communication of news about subdomains. I do not think that this goal has been achieved. Most subdomains do not make the effort of writing things in there, so most entries remain empty. And when they do, it is mostly in order to record that their subdomain has reached a given number of pages, which nobody cares about.

I propose to replace this system with a single blog-style page, called for example Wikisource:News. The page would display a list of announcements about subdomains, and only this (no discussions). Each announcement would be formatted with a title, date, icon and username of the reporter. Most recent items should be prepended to the top of the list.

ThomasV 15:26, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

ack. And if I'm like to know the numbers so we have good [statistics. -jkb- 16:56, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

ok, since there was no opposition I created the page ThomasV 12:02, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Proofread with multilingual books[edit]

There are lots of books, specially about [minoritary] languages "B", written in a language "A" (usually Spanish, French, German and English), with poetry or very large texts written in "B", but also commented, annotated, prologued or extensively expanded in "A". For raw text, it is easy to allow navigation inter-wikisources with the correct links in the header. For example, a mainly Catalan-poems book with French, Occitan, Greek, Spanish and other languages' translations within the same book: Lou carlamusaire de Llobregat is an example. Please, comment it if you don't agree with that behaviour.

But now with Pages and Index, and with the impossibility to transclude from one domain to another, I ask you if you agree with me, because I am really not sure how to handle it. The first option of every case is my best preference, do you agree?:

("N" means "B language" and "C language" and "D language" etc, but not "A language")

  • Case 1: If the book is written mainly in A, and has just a few pages in N:
  1. Option 1 (one Index, duplicate raw text): Include all the pages and Index at A-Wikisource, optional duplication of the N-"raw text" at N-Wikisources, but do not create Pages nor Index at N-Wikisources. Proofreading with Textquality template at N-Wikisource, and with Pagequality at A-Wikisource.
  2. Option 2 (duplicate Index and some Pages): Include all the pages and Index at A-Wikisource, and create N-Pages and N-Index at N-Wikisources just for those N-Pages. Proofreading with Pagequality template.
  3. Option 3 (duplicate Index but not Pages): Include just the A-pages and Index at A-Wikisource, create N-Pages and N-Index at N-Wikisources just for those N-Pages. The full text cannot be shown alltogether.
  • Case 2: If the book is written in A, and has more N-pages than A-Pages:
  1. Option 1 (one Index, duplicate raw text): Include all the pages and Index at N-Wikisource, optional duplication of the A-"raw text" at A-Wikisources. Inversed option 1 of Case 1.
  2. Other options.
  • Case 3: Same as Case 1, but N-Pages contain references in A:
  1. Option 1: same as Case 1, with the addition of the possibility ot Wikisource-translation of references from A to N at N-Wikisources.
  2. Other options.

A bit confusing... Regards. -Aleator (talk) 13:37, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


Duplication is evil. However, it is not impossible to transclude from one domain to another: Scary Transclusion does it. It currently works only for templates, but my long-term plan was to somehow extend it to 'page' ns. sorry that it did not happen yet. ThomasV 06:23, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
well, after some testing, I found that Scary Transclusion already works well enough for cross-domain transclusion of pages. All we have to have it enabled. ThomasV 10:21, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Enabling Scary Transclusion between wikisource subdomains[edit]

(see above post about multilingual books)

Scary Transclusion is a configuration option that allows to transclude pages cross-domain. I think it is the correct way to deal with multilingual books without duplicating data and effort. I would like to propose its activation. Please let me know what you think here. ThomasV 10:26, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Speaking about Wikisources, not other projects: I think it would be a very usefull utility solving such specific problems as described above. Pro. -jkb- 10:34, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
hm, actually I found why it is not enabled at wmf websites : https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9890 ThomasV 10:42, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


Cross-wiki transclusion[edit]

Scary Transclusion is not going to be enabled anytime soon at WMF, if ever. However, it is possible to fake cross-domains transclusion using javascript. I just wrote a set of javascript functions that do this, using the new API.

You can see it working on la.ws. It uses a template that transcludes a single page from another domain. It is used on these pages : la:Usor:ThomasV/test, and la:Usor:ThomasV/test3.

As you can see, the template inserts blank lines between pages, so it is not appropriate if you want to transclude several pages. Here is another one that transcludes many pages using the 'pages' command : la:Formula:iwpages. Here is an example : la:Usor:ThomasV/test2.

These templates should work on all the subdomains that call the Mediawiki:OCR.js page from here.

ThomasV 15:18, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

My god :O What can't be done? Thank you! I'll begin to play some tests at my local wiki in short. One bug: it didn't work me if not logged at la.source. Thanks a lot again ;) -Aleator (talk) 15:56, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
not logged in, you probably want to refresh your javascript (type 'control-R') ThomasV 16:09, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
One additional "if" will allow transclude texts from oldwikisource ([4]). What is it better, importing .js from oldwikisource, or adding just the necessary code? (OCR.js has specific code for de.source and extra button & function... a bit confusing for me). Regards. -Aleator (talk) 21:00, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Bot flag[edit]

Hi, can I have a bot flag for User:CandalBot? I'm going to use it for pages in Category:Vèneto to add subcategories and templates' parameters. This way we can avoid situations like this... :-) Thanks in advance! Candalua 17:38, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

appointed ThomasV 11:22, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

inactive bots[edit]

There are some inactive bots:

and also

with nearly no edits, the last ones in 2005. I suggest to remove the bot flag for all. -jkb- 08:37, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Hungary again[edit]

Dear Colleagues! Hungarian wikisource boosts 14,447 articles, surpassing the Polish one by a good 700 articles. I kindly request you to modify the circle at the front page and acknowledge the steady work done by the few editors in Hungary. Thanks a lot, --Burumbátor 07:02, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

we do not use articles to sort subdomains. see Wikisource:Votes and http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikisource/EN/TablesPageViewsMonthly.htm
ThomasV 07:07, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok, forgive my ignorance. But then this is not reflected in the way the circle looks like... It still talks about "13 500+ articles" etc. --Burumbátor 10:24, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Interwiki/interlanguage wikilinks[edit]

I was wondering... why does de: have such a huge amount (and steeply increasing) of interwiki/interlanguage wikilinks/links to other Wikimedia sites, compared to the other subdomains? --Nemo bis 16:52, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Have you asked them? :-) -jkb- 16:57, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
That's what I'm doing, isn't it? I suppose there are some de.source users here. --Nemo bis 18:12, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Siehe de:Hauptseite - sie sind ausgezogen :-), -jkb- 18:31, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Bug with <ref group="nb"> ... </ref>?[edit]

I wanted to distinguish between the footnotes of the author and my (or somebody else's) footnotes. So I decided to mark up my footnotes with the above mentioned template. When I save the individual djvu page (http://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Seite:Lorentzgruppe_(Klein).djvu/1) an error message is displayed.

It works fine in the display of the transluced text (http://de.wikisource.org/wiki/%C3%9Cber_die_geometrischen_Grundlagen_der_Lorentzgruppe).

Any ideas what do I do wrong?

TomyDuby 03:36, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry, it's a standard behavior of references on mediawiki sites. If any <ref> and no matching <references /> tags are found, the error message is displayed. In this case: <ref> is on the de:Seite:Lorentzgruppe (Klein).djvu/1 subpage, which is transluded to de:Über die geometrischen Grundlagen der Lorentzgruppe page and matching <references /> is there. --Milda 05:19, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
Milda, thanks for your reply. I will continue using this. TomyDuby 09:36, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
To be sure to get a proper and quick answer you should ask directly in de:Wikisource:Skriptorium next time. Regards, -jkb- 10:02, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
you can also ask an admin to blank the error message ThomasV 14:54, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
or you can display them : see http://de.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Seite:Lorentzgruppe_(Klein).djvu/1&curid=182857&diff=851290&oldid=850218 ThomasV 14:57, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

proofread index pages[edit]

For the friends of proofread: the German WP announced a software change, a new page Special:IndexPages. It works obviously on all WSs (see e.g. de:Special:IndexPages, but not here. Regards, -jkb- 06:22, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

proofreadpage is not installed on ws.org. there is an request pending, however ThomasV 10:57, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Deleted pages[edit]

Hello. In 2005 Polish wikisource project was created and pages were transferred there by. Original pages (on this project) were deleted. We are unable to contact people who created those pages (about missing information, permissions etc.). Is someone able to generate a list of contributors to each transferred page? I can do it myself using a bot, but I need a temporary sysop bit here. The beginning of the list is on this contributions page. I can produce list of pages in other format if desired. Is someone capable of doing this task? Thanks. Beau 21:01, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

No replies... Should I request one-day adminship on Project:Administrators#Requests_for_adminship ? Beau 10:30, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
If it were one or two pages, no problem, I did it several times for Nikki. But this time it is a great amount of work that should be done with a bot. There has never been granted the status of temporary sysop here, but that should not be a problem I guess. Anyway, you should ask the bureaucrat User:ThomasV and to make an agreement for the later desysoping. Regards -jkb- 12:43, 3 October 2009 (UTC).
I remember that the polish users copied pages from here to pl.ws, instead of waiting for their pages to be imported with their full history. I was quite upset about that, and about their unwillingless to cooperate; they did not communicate about which pages had to be deleted locally, and it was a real pain to work with them. I hope the people in charge now are more insightful.
I do not think that I can give you a temporary sysop flag. you should ask on meta.
ThomasV 13:19, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. I am going check if there is a possibility to use transwiki to import lost history into existing pages. This will require restoring pages here, importing them, and deleting them again. I would like to clean this mess up, but this need to wait a couple of days, because I am not a sysop there yet (I have a pending RfA). Beau 15:23, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
With transwiki you can move pages + history at once. If the pages exist in pl.source yet so you cannot merge them - as far as I know. You could use the contributor tool http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/Contributors.php to get a list of contributors. -jkb- 15:46, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
I have just tested it. I have created a page on testwiki and merged it with a page from en-wiki. So it is possible :-). I wonder if mass undeleting/deleting pages will not cause any disturbances here (I am unable to transwiki a deleted page). Should I ask for bot+sysop rights on meta, so my actions won't pollute recent changes here? I assure that I am not going to break anything. I am already a sysop on Polish Wikipedia and have there an account with sysop+bot rights (). I would be nice if I had some comments of approval bellow, so it won't be done without consent of local community :). Beau 16:08, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
I support this. Seems like the active users are in favor here so you could go ahead with the request on meta. Maximillion Pegasus 20:53, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
I support this, too. Beau is going to be sysop on Polish Wikisource (he passed the RfA election). He knows good the technology of wiki's engine and is the one of trusted users on Polish wikis. Electron <Talk?> 12:12, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Georgian BIBLY[edit]

I work with Georgian BIBLY which was on page http://wikisource.org/wiki/ბიბლია . I don know why, but administration deleted his content. please give me way to cominicate wikipedia with wikisource. as I know we have no georgian page like ka.wikisource.org.sicarely http://wikisource.org/wiki/Main_Page:ქართული this is our- Georgian web page for wikisourceSurprizi 13:54, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the page won't be created until you've translated all the mediawikis for your language. Also, if you have questions about creation ka wikisource, please contact meta.--Gaeser 14:35, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Wikisource, Wikisource:Wikisource, or Wikisource:Slogans[edit]

Moved to Talk:Wikisource. Dovi 20:48, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Wikisource[edit]

Hi, I've edited at Wikipedia before and I found Wikisource today. What exactly is Wikisource all about. Thanks, HeadCaptain 18:50, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

First, you could maybe try Wikisource:What is Wikisource?. Secondly, you should read this before you recommend somebody for admin here :-). Regards, -jkb- 19:42, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Qur'an in 40 Languages[edit]

Hi guys! I am not sure if this is the right spot for this or not, but I found the Qur'an in 40 different languages. Considering we have Wikisource in so many different languages and this is a centralized discussion I decided to make a comment here. The DJVU files are on the Internet Archive and are still being processed (they have been processing for close to a month). The link to the page can be found here. From what I can tell the license should be compatible. Please tell what you guys think about this. Also, I all ready started a discussion about this on my home wiki, English Wikisource. The link to this discussion can be found here. --Mattwj2002 21:12, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi Mattwj2002 and thanks. I think at this stage we should follow the discussion on ws.en the best. Regards -jkb- 08:58, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Ancient greek (bis)[edit]

Il semble que rien ne bouge pour la wikisource en grec ancien, quelqu’un aurait-il des informations ?

It seems that nothing happens for the ancient Greek wikisource, did someone have any informations?

Cdlt, VIGNERON 17:26, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

  • It seems to me that this would reflect a lack of interest. If you are interested just start adding material. Eclecticology 01:11, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

X[edit]

500px-Xmas tree animated.gifA merry X-mas to all who celebrate it, and merry days to all who do not. Regards, -jkb- 10:18, 24 December 2009 (UTC)