Wikisource talk:Bibliowiki/Archive-13-Apr-2017

Welcome, Wikilivres users

Site Status

http:wikilivres.ca

This is kind of like that Abe Vigoda thing (before he died); but the site is currently not working. One page did finally load, after cycling for a very long time, but this did not portend a restoration of service, & now it is back to "nada". Lx 121 (talk) 11:48, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

just now I have been logged in but it was nearly inpossible to navigate or to edit something. -jkb- (talk) 20:04, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

I emailed the host about 12 hours ago and have no response yet. Once I get the domain, I'll have to move it. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:32, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

I will try to follow the development. Tomorrow I'm flying for some days to Basel to the "carnival". -jkb- (talk) 22:43, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

seems to be working now; much like the last time. maybe this is just the host's maintenance "cycle"?

i'd be cautious about moving plans, at least until we have costed things out here; we have zero funding here. cheap hosting, but with moderate outages, might be an acceptable/necessary compromise; for now, at least.

btw; does anyone have webtraffic &/or useage data for out site? that's going to be relevant to hosting (cost) decisions as well.

Lx 121 (talk) 03:52, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

@Lx 121: I don't have any of that data but I will if/when the host gives me the domain. They only respond when I say that I'm giving them money. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:53, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

FYI, see the talk here, -jkb- (talk) 10:08, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

site appears to be down again? (so much for my wikiwork plans for today >__<) Lx 121 (talk) 01:12, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

When will registration reopen?

Hi, I would like to contribute to Wikilivres, which is the reason I borrowed a book that fits the public domain criteria, but only to learn that the registration is now closed. Is there any plan to open it again? I tried to log-in with my account here but failed. Springbreak04 (talk) 14:11, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

The registration was closed a time ago due to massive attacks by spam bots. Now, after we gain the full access to the database, that was interruped, we shall discus the registration question as well. Cheers -jkb- (talk) 14:24, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

What if resuming of the registration would be somehow announced on the Wikisource, for example here — on this discussion page? I personnally have also minded to get registered and to start working there, I have found numerous Mordvinic works which are still unavailable to be hosted on the Wikisource because of Russia and/or US copyright laws, but are already in PD according to Canadian laws. For other users, who also wish to join the Wikilivres, such informing could be also useful, as I think. --Nigmont (talk) 16:07, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Good idea. Same here, I borrowed a book whose copyright status fits the public domain policy of Wikilivres but not Wikisource. I guess for the meantime I'll try to find a book that can fit the public domain policy of Wikisource. --Springbreak04 (talk) 17:13, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

@Nigmont, Sprinbreak04: I really appreciate your guys' enthusiasm. I hope that I can get a hold of the domain name soon--it's been very frustrating. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:46, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

wikilivres.ca still down

site is still down? it's been 24+ hours now. any news, anybody?

o__0

Lx 121 (talk) 04:06, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

@Lx 121: I actually just came here to post. I have not been able to get anyone from the host to talk to me except for when I was paying them. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:09, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

@Koavf: this is very frustrating! i think we need to be prepared to jump ship to a new site & host @ anytime now. IF the site comes back up, we need to get a fresh backup of all the recent work. i'm not sure if it's worth continuing to add new work on the site @ the present host or not, but if we do, we need to keep all that work from getting lost.

& we should probably get a replacement site up & running asap; new name if necessary. we can always rename it back to wikilivres if/when we can secure the domain name.

any word from the guy who was going to set one up hosted in .jp?

Lx 121 (talk) 06:57, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

@Lx 121: I have not. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:08, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

@Koavf: 3rd day; any word? do we know if the whole hosting thing is down, or just wikilivres? i think it's time we get a b-site operating in any case; maybe we should both try talking to the .jp guy? Lx 121 (talk) 00:57, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

@Lx 121: Maybe so, yes. I will have to work on this in the coming week. :/ —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:59, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi guys, is there a backup and if so what size are we talking? Also, does someone have control over the domain name? If you want a replacement location I can help on a VPS in Tokyo, but it would work best if: 1. someone had access to the domain name so they could change the DNS records to point to the new location (rather than creating a new domain name), and 2. if there was something that could be restored from backup so that once the IP addresses/hosts were changed, it would "just work". --Jeffmcneill (talk) 11:31, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Last 2 dumps are here: https://archive.org/download/wiki-wikilivresca_w (the last is from 20-Feb-2017 14:12, ca 5.7G with all files) Electron  ^<Talk?> 12:15, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Downloading now. Will report back when I know what I've got and if it is straightforward to run. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 14:50, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

It looks like this backup is using the WikiTools, is that right? There are not users or passwords saved in this kind of backup. Just FYI, and correct me if I am wrong. https://github.com/WikiTeam/wikiteam/wiki/FAQ

comment - status of domain name (as .ca) is stuck under old (deceased) owner. we're trying to get it unstuck; no luck thus far. we hadn't really settled on possible alternative names. if you want to try the same name, but @ .jp that's fine with me; we can always figure it out later. or maybe something like 'publicdomainwiki' 'PD50wiki'? like i said, we hadn't really discussed any possibilities. wikilivres has been going since the late "oughts" i think, so there is some "brand recognition". on the other hand the name overlaps with the french version of wikibooks...

re: backup, i'm not the tech person but as far as i know yes @ wikitools. losing the user accounts would suck, but we can recover from that. Lx 121 (talk) 20:07, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

also, thank-you!  :) Lx 121 (talk) 20:09, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

The dump consits of all new and old versions of pages that were on wikilivres (with user pages and user talk pages as well) and all images and files that weren't deleted. There are not passwords saved so everybody users should create their accounts on new wiki all over again, I suppose... Passwords and deleted pages are saved in inner wiki files and there is no possibility to dump them if you have't access to the inner wiki files on server. Electron  ^<Talk?> 20:55, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

As far as I can understand the presen development: 1) the domain name "wikilivres" seems at present not to be free (we would have to register another one), and 2) the new domain could be placed in Japan. This is OK in the sense, as the ja copyright seems to be quite similar to the canadian one, so thqat we wouldn't have to make great changes in the content of the old wililivres. If we really cannot use the name "wikilivres" so I wouln't like to choose names like "pd wiki" or "pd50wiki" or similar, I think I would prefer something similar to the old name (as it is known since many years), mightbe livres wiki, wiki&livres, or something like that. If wikiolivres will be free later on there will be no problem to rename it again. Am I right? -jkb- (talk) 22:07, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

I've got a server up on a Linode VPS that is located in Tokyo. IP address 139.162.74.38. I've got the OS installed and secured, and am moving forward with the application servers, etc. Please discuss/decide on domain name you prefer, either here and/or on this Github issue: <https://github.com/classicspress/wikilivres/issues/6>. The cheapest solution, at least for today, would be livres.wiki or publicdomain.wiki (both are available and on sale at Gandi.net for $8). Obviously there needs to be some way that multiple people have access to the domain name in case one person becomes unavailable. The easiest way I can think of is if the contact email is a mailing list rather than a mailbox.

I tried to sign in on the github with my crosswiki user name (-jkb-) but it doesn't work. I have chosen another one. -jkb- (talk) 13:47, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Same me, my name there is Electron-PL. Electron  ^<Talk?> 15:22, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Lx-121 @github Lx 121 (talk) 08:28, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Wikilivres Migration Status

I've managed to get the backups and unzip them and this is what it looks like: 23,658 images and other files = 6.2gb uncompressed. 42,898 wiki entries, including categories. The xml dump of history is 2.2gb. I haven't tested for any corruption of the files, but the zips themselves do not show corruption. Regarding the domain name, there are options like: wikilivres.io ($35/year), wikilivres.jp ($90/year) and livres.wiki ($8/year sale at gandi.net, but looks to be $35/year in the future). The latter might be best since it keeps the brand name and also does not use a country code (the .io is considered generic, so also not a bad choice). I'm going to get a mediawiki up and running and see what it takes to import the backup. Anyone with experience doing this, please advise. There seems to be an order of tasks that is important, see: <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Importing_XML_dumps> and <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:ImportImages.php>. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 03:27, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

I've created a repository on Github to document the technical process, for those interested <https://github.com/classicspress/wikilivres>. Also, requests/requirements/problems can be submitted as Github Issues: <https://github.com/classicspress/wikilivres/issues>.

FYI, I'm up to Apache, SSL, PHP and MySQL installed. Next up will be some more Apache config with memcached, MediaWiki, then the backup restoration. P.S., I run Linode/LAMP servers mostly for clients on WordPress, but have done MediaWiki in the past, so I am confident I can provide a stable and secure platform for Wikilivres. I know what this level of admin entails, from the server/services/security side of things. The learning curve for me will be in mediawiki tools/config, so that the system is working as needed by editors. I'm on Indochina time GMT+7, so end of workday. Will resume in the am. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 15:38, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

next day or to will be extremely busy for me, so this is probably the only response i'll get in, until it's over.

if we are claiming japanese copyright jurisdiction, it probably should be a .jp domain of some/any kind (unless they are all hopelessly expensive). .io is ultimately british territory (british indian ocean territory), so that might be uk copyright( - not good!).

japanese copyright laws are actually slightly better than cdn, for our purposes; on the rule of the shorter term for USA at least. do not know the japanese rules for posthumous & un -published works?

china, s korea, nz, & south africa (among others) are also pma-50 countries. there are still a few places in the world with even shorter terms.

japan probably has the least issues with censorship.

i have no strong preferences for a new name, if we go that route; wiki, livres, libre/free, public domain, pd-50 or pma 50, etc. are obvious terms. i do hate to lose the brand recognition, but not at any cost, & the name does need to make sense, be relevant, & preferably easy to remember.

if/when wikilivres.ca becomes available, we can always snag it. we should certainly keep a watch on it, if we absolutely cannot get it transferred at this time.

last thought: IF (hopefully when) wikilivres.ca comes back online

1. we should immediately get the wikitool ppl to do one final "scrape" of the site. a month's work is still a lot to loose.

& i don't necessarily have all the ebook files i uploaded during that time, anymore.

2. the way things are with the hosting, there is probably no point in continuing any further work @ the old site, except to salvage material to move to the new site, & to post "moving/redirect" notices to the new site?

my suggestions anyway; open to discussion.

Lx 121 (talk) 04:08, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Regarding domain name and copyright law, those two are not connected. It is the physical location of the server/files that determines jurisdiction for copyright laws. The .io is treated as generic by Google. The same with .wiki. However, .jp is treated (as with .ca) as a country code domain which has an effect on how Google returns search results. In this case, .io and .wiki are better for search engine results ranking. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 05:58, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

I've found a stopping problem. Turns out there is a part of Japanese copyright law that provides an extension for Allied powers copyright works b/c of the non-protection that happened during WWII. This basically adds 11.4 years to anything published before Dec 07, 1941 -- and lesser time for those published between that date and 28 Apr 1952 when the San Francisco Treaty came into effect. Very sorry but I was not aware of this. Since this adds significant complications, my sense is that Japan is not a viable location for WikiLivres. Because of this, I'm now looking at a Canadian VPS. This sets me back a day, as I have to rebuild the OS and application servers, but as I've been documenting every step, it will be a bit faster than the first time. Sorry for the delay, but good this was caught early. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 06:04, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

I've got a new VPS which is located in Montreal (SSDNODES, reseller of OVH), actually a pretty good discount, so this may be a blessing in disguise. Starting to secure the OS now. I've updated the Github repo which has IP, host and configuration info. <https://github.com/classicspress/wikilivres> --Jeffmcneill (talk) 07:25, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Nice and fine! At least there would be no change in the copyright + licence problem. A nice trivia: here it is a blocked open proxy :-) -jkb- (talk) 08:57, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

what is the thing with the blocked open proxy abt? & sorry to hear abt the copyright complication. that sucks; i hope you didnt lose too much work on it? Lx 121 (talk) 10:03, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

That Blocked open proxy is for an entire class B network for 5 years (starting in 2015). People do use OVH for VPNs and such, but "open proxy" is misleading, to say the least. Nonetheless it should have no effect on the new wiki site, since the wiki itself won't be editing mediawiki content (and apparently if folks are logged in then they are allowed through anyways). --Jeffmcneill (talk) 10:50, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

other words for naming possibilities: wiki resource ? i'd love to put an accent over the e, but it would make typing it in a nuisance)

resource.wiki

what about wikilivres.wiki ?

new-wikilivres ? wikilivres-nouveau ?

or something else longer, with 'wikilivres' in it, & possibly something about 'canada'?

or hyphenated? wiki-livres wiki-resource etc.

i wish we had the rest of the community in the discussion! is there anyway to get it set up, then finalise the name after we've got out people "back"? generic or numbered address or something, very temporarily

Lx 121 (talk) 10:03, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

MediaWiki Installed - Ready to Configure + Restore. Hi folks, I've got everything functioning and the basic MediaWiki installation done. Next is the configuration part, which is important to do correctly, to ensure that the system has the same namespace, database structure, so the restore will fit and everything most things will work as expected. If anyone has any knowledge or recollection about the way that WikiLivres was set up, including namespace structure, any additional features/plugins enabled, etc., please email jeff@mcneill.io.

I can wing it without any input, but more info is better at this point. I'm going to do some backups of the configuration. Should be another day of work, depending on the speed of importing/restoring backup files. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 08:17, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

New site Temporary URL: <https://wiki.classics.io/>.

link works, but it only takes me to a mediawiki title page, "MediaWiki 1.28.0/LocalSettings.php not found./Please set up the wiki first."? Lx 121 (talk) 13:45, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

yep, it is installed but not configured/setted up. -jkb- (talk) 13:49, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Very very good news, indeed! Thanks for it - and although I instaled my "localwiki" on my privat PC (just to be able to work at home), this is something much more difficult... So my help will be rather virtual :-( -jkb- (talk) 13:23, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

question - does this mean you have a copy of wikilivres saved? Lx 121 (talk) 08:27, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

No, I installed MediaWiki, not Wikilivres :-) -jkb- (talk) 08:48, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

i can tell you something about the category structure if that's what you mean? & we had basic (old) "hotcats" running. there was a technical requests page set up, for wanted improvements. link was in the shortlist in the left column of the page-framing. can try to tell you more details, if i know what you need. Lx 121 (talk) 13:36, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

creating of new accounts: I write it here as the other users should get knowledge as well. We have been discussing the possibility to enable the account creating after a long time, and I would support this idea. But for the first time after having been migrated I would prefer only accounts that existed before, just to consolidate the project. After some 2/3/4/? qweeks we can anable new accounts again. Oppinions?? -jkb- (talk) 13:35, 29 March 2017 (UTC) - - - naturally with the possible exeption of some user from here like Nigmont who are interesting and who have experience. -jkb- (talk) 13:39, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

comment -- as far as i know, the old user account (login/pw) info is NOT included in the backup. we are all going to have to re-create our accounts to get started. i don't think we should wait too long to add new users, IF we can even find anybody who wants to join us; at this point we will be lucky if we can get everybody back! but what about some kind of manual account approval/review process? Lx 121 (talk) 13:42, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Lx 121, you probably have no experience with brand new domains. Before we open it to all new users we must have a look if everything is working. I donot meas to read and to write. But the localisation must work, tools like protect pages and block user, delete pages, the most important media wiki tools, and after my (our) experience with some more thousands spam bots some three years ago I insist on having a good working CU tool, etc. If not, we have a huge chaos within some days. Later sure: all people who want to help are welcome. -jkb- (talk) 14:44, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi, Impossible to create an account now. At least images were not restored. Regards, Yann (talk) 22:18, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Yann, you created the Account Yann2, but as I tried to welcome you (I do it hereby, ok?), I could not save my message and neither the message for Jeff. Let's wait what Jeff can tell us tommorow, now he has his sleeping time, I guess. Anyway, nice you will get in! -jkb- (talk) 22:22, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Yann, I just tested and it worked for me. Please try Incognito Mode in Chrome, visit <https://wiki.classics.io/index.php>, do a hard refresh, then click Create account, hard refresh, and enter new account info. For more about hard refresh see: <https://www.getfilecloud.com/blog/2015/03/tech-tip-how-to-do-hard-refresh-in-browsers/>, also in chrome, try: <chrome://net-internals/#export>, and then click the drop down menu on far-right-side, and select Clear Cache. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 22:30, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Jeff, for me it is since some 30 minutes impossible to edit there; I saved all messages - you will get them tommorow. -jkb- (talk) 22:34, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

now the site is down "Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties. Try waiting a few minutes and reloading. (Cannot access the database)" - followed by a backtrace - I have a copy -jkb- (talk) 06:03, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

@Jeffmcneill: for messages on the site see User:-jkb-/wl -jkb- (talk) 06:22, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

09:15 CET - it's running again -jkb- (talk) 07:18, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi folks, sorry for the instability. I think this needs to be expected until the restore is up and running. I know this doesn't meet expectations, but the restore is a lot of trouble. It's been stopping halfway, so I've had to do things like reconfigure the database and PHP so more memory is available (my guess is that some wiki pages are very big, exceeding default memory configuration, at least that is what the indications/recommendations are. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 07:47, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Oh, it was no "reclamation" - just an info for you... I think it is normal, no problem. -jkb- (talk) 07:53, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Role call

we should probably figure out who-all we have active; so how about everybody who is involved or interested please sign in here?

& please specify whether you already have/had an account @ wikilivres.ca or not.

also; if you know how to get hold of any wikilivres.ca users who have not turned up here (yet), let us know! —unsigned comment by Lx 121 (talk) 13:55, 29 March 2017 (UTC).

1. Lx 121 (talk) 13:55, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
2. Electron  ^<Talk?> 15:20, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
3. Simon Peter Hughes (talk) 12:14, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
4. My account on wikilivres.ca was the same. -- VadimVMog (talk) 21:31, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
5. Yann (talk) 22:20, 31 March 2017 (UTC) Founder of the site ;oD, bureaucrat, admin, etc.

SCNR: another Canadian owner? -jkb- (talk) 22:24, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

what is "scnr"? o_0 Lx 121 (talk) 18:35, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

settings

@Jeffmcneill: - a summary answer to your mail here, here from me, other should write something as well, please.

1. copyright for the wikilivres - I cannot remember, may be somebody can answer this bettter, I guess it could be Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike
2. main namespace to Wikilivres - ok
3. Edit rights settings - Logged in accounts is ok for the beginnig, we need a CU anyway
4. Email notifications... - we must decide later
5. Extensions to enable - I guess all you named will be needed

For the first: once more a lot of thanks, it seems to go on indeed!!! Cheers -jkb- (talk) 11:29, 30 March 2017 (UTC) - - - Wow it works (btw, it soads a bit quickier than the old one :-) )

Login to New Server

Ok, the server is open for business. Everyone will have to create a new account, unfortuantely. I am currently transfering the backup and will attempt a restore. However you can create a new account now. Any logged in account can edit (but not anonymous/not-logged-in). It is still very much a plain vanilla configuration, as I did not turn on any extensions, and the content isn't back there yet (still copying/expanding) Just FYI, I know that it is possible to get a MediaWiki setup up and running a lot faster than I have, but I am going through all the settings manually. As an IT guy, making sure the system is stable and secure and will be quick (enough) is more important, since we live with the server on into the future. I will announce when the restore is done. Any issues/questions, anything that doesn't look right, etc. please use the Github Issues, as I can better track each issue there. We can move the discussion over to the new WikiLivres in appropriate pages once the content is back. Thank you for your patience. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 12:37, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

brilliant & thank-you! :) already made my account, same username Lx 121 (talk) 12:42, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

I've created my account. Do I get to be an admin again? Simon Peter Hughes (talk) 14:10, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

comment - welcome! & probably, but we haven't worked out anything about the ownership & operation of the site yet; nor the paying of the bills xD Lx 121 (talk) 14:22, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

If you have an account on github so there is a proposal to collect some money to enable the common bussines of the domain. We schould think about it. -jkb- (talk) 14:42, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for starting resurrection of the site. Just now I've created my account there as well. By the way, I want to notice that my antivirus had deadly blocked access to the site considering it as dangerous, so I was forced to include the site's URL in the exceptions list of the antivirus. Also the browser returned the error — something about SSL sertificate. I think additional setup should be applied to avoid blaming the site by antiviruses... --Nigmont (talk) 17:59, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

I wrote it to Jeff, I guess he's sleepeng now... Did you really created an account there? I don't see it, maybe a delay. -jkb- (talk) 18:40, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

-jkb-: Yes, I created it — for example, I do see it in the https://wiki.classics.io/index.php/Special:RecentChanges there. --Nigmont (talk) 19:00, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

I guess it was the cache. -jkb- (talk) 19:01, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Please send me <mailto:jeff@mcneill.io> screen shots or text of the antivirus message (and which antivirus you use). Need more info to investigate. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 04:10, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

@Jeffmcneill: Right now I have sent to you a message (with information about the error) on your e-mail provided here, I hope it will help. Sorry that I am answering only now (I cannot write during my work hours, according to Moscow timezone UTC+3; but tomorrow and the next day I am off working hours and expected to be available at the daytime as well). --Nigmont (talk) 19:20, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

@Nigmont: I've seen the message. I've submitted a false positive report to ESET/NOD, and will look further at why you were getting an error on the SSL Certificate. I use LetsEncrypt SSL Certs, and there is usually no problem with any browsers. I will look closer and let you know what I find. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 19:56, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Here is the report showing only ESET is giving a false positive <https://sitecheck.sucuri.net/results/wiki.classics.io>

I had the same problem with Avast Antyvirus. I had to add the address to the exceptions list of the antivirus... Electron  ^<Talk?> 20:44, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

I've submitted a false positive for Avast also <https://www.avast.com/report-a-url.php>

@Jeffmcneill: It seems that ESET NOD processed your request, because now I have opened the site without any alerts from my antivirus, and also without any SSL errors. Thank you for your addressing this problem. Best regards, Nigmont (talk) 21:24, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Import Status (ongoing)

The import of pages/history is happening. It's pretty slow, but there are some few hundred articles now. The caching is very aggressive right now so changes aren't showing up so fast. I can change that but not wall the import process is happening. Once the XML file is imported, then I will import the images (and other files). Not sure how long this will take altogether, but the process is underway. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 14:48, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

The import of the pages/history is still ongoing. Currently there are: 9,305 pages, 30,493 edits, 7 users: -jkb-, Jeffmcneill, Koavf, Lx 121, Nigmont, Simon Peter Hughes, VadimVMog, Zephyrus. We may be around 20% complete. This process is taking a long time, but it is the one recommended by wikimedia (using PHP from the command line). Hopefully this will finish within the next 48 hours. After that, the images/files upload. Will give updates as things progress. If anyone wants to create new pages, it is probably best to do them in their own namespace first, then after all pages are restored, can move into the main namespace. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 03:32, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Update As of 09:00 GMT 31 Mar 17, we are at 23,000+ pages and 61,000+ edits restored, and 10 user accounts. This is about 50% done. Images/files will be restored after the pages/history is complete. Unclear how long that process will take. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 10:40, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Update As of 20:00 GMT 31 Mar 17, we are at 28,000+ pages, which is about 2/3rds complete. Apx. 26 hours more needed at present rate. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 18:22, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Update The XML import (which is a single 2.2gb file) is failing. I've taken it apart into individual articles, and will attempt to import them as individual files. That way we can see where the failure is, and work around it. The other options are to turn the XML into SQL (and in some cases then into TXT files), but that has other disadvantages, and requires adding another process that is very slow according to the MediaWiki geniuses. So, still slogging along but we only have 2/3rds of the site (articles) restored, and none of the images/files. This process should not disrupt any current editing, as it really just imports the info as a set of revisions for a filename. Same filenames should simply have their older revisions added to them. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 09:54, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Admins

Let me know who should have Admin status and also if you had Bureaucrats (who can add/remove Admins). --Jeffmcneill (talk) 14:48, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

I would propose for the first wee shall keep the status quo, rights? And then wi'll se and change if... As I don't remeber all I start here a list, pls everybody should add another names he is remebering: -jkb- (talk) 14:55, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

list of admins on wikilivres.ca

• Yann (+ bct) user not yet created 31-Mar-2017
• Jusjih user not yet created 31-Mar-2017
• -jkb- (+CU) done 31-Mar-2017
• Zephyrus (+CU) done 31-Mar-2017 (P.S., not sure what +bct or +CU means, please clarify --Jeffmcneill (talk) 03:36, 31 March 2017 (UTC))
• Simon Peter Hughes done 31-Mar-2017
• Dmitrismirnov - Welcome Dmitrismirnov, as accounts/passwords cannot be restored (but all pages will be), please re-create your account at the current (temporary) location: <https://wiki.classics.io/index.php/Special:CreateAccount> I tried re-create my account quite a few times with no success. --Dmitrismirnov (talk) 13:19, 2 April 2017 (UTC).

I've added your account to Admins --Jeffmcneill (talk) 18:11, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

• Electron - I recreated my own account, here; add admin rigths, please Electron  ^<Talk?> 10:09, 31 March 2017 (UTC) done 31-Mar-2017
• Electron Bot - I recreated my bot account, here; it is my bot with admin rights and bot status; add admin rigths and bot status, please. Electron  ^<Talk?> 10:09, 31 March 2017 (UTC) done 31-Mar-2017

comment -- we should confirm user-identities here, before conferring admin-rights on "new" accounts @ the new wiki. i.e.; so far we haven't heard from a lot of our "old" users. hope we can get everybody back! ...but it would also be bad if some clever person tried to "sneak in" as an admin, by re-cycling one of the names on this list @ the new wiki. Lx 121 (talk) 15:09, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

I added my name here because I had Admin status at the "old" as well as at the "oldest" Wikilivres:ca --Dmitrismirnov (talk) 06:30, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi, I can't create an account. Can't you use the accounts from the dump? Regards, Yann (talk) 17:59, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Yann, I just tested account creation and was able to create one. There are no accounts/passwords in the backup (only pages and images/files). Please try again and do a hard refresh of the browser. I just tried using Chrome Incognito mode (so no cache/not logged in) and it worked fine, and fast. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 18:09, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

OK now, with the help of Zephyrus. Yann (talk) 23:20, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Jeffmcneill, FYI. Yann (talk) 12:44, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

CU = check user

B = bureaucrat

I have created my username Jusjih at wiki.classics.io and I would like to request adminship to represent Chinese speakers, please.--Jusjih (talk) 02:35, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi Jusjih, welcome and I've granted admin rights. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 02:48, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Hopefully the new URL will be stable.--Jusjih (talk) 16:12, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Organizational Structure of Wikilivres

also; perhaps we should agree on a "core group" to operate the site, handle bill payments, etc.? & some kind of structure for it.

&/or some kind of a long-term plan to "affiliate" with one or more of the wikipedia chapters?

Lx 121 (talk) 15:12, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I mean active users; let's ping some of them: @Yann, Jusjih, Koavf: for the first -jkb- (talk) 15:15, 30 March 2017 (UTC) - - - I'm not sure if we should affilate with a chapter - ? -jkb- (talk) 15:16, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

are they are all on here & with the same user names? also, i am not clear if a ping "here" reaches "every" wmf wiki, or if it is only local?

i am undecided on whether it is better to continue fully independent, or to get chapter/s & (indirect) wmf support. but we do need to figure out something. & clearly single-person ownership & operation of the webwsite has not worked out well for us... >__<

Legally, incorporation as a not-for-profit in Canada is an option. However fees, paperwork, bank account is a bit of a hassle, and there are fees if the balance is low. The same thing could be done (in terms of bylaws, etc.) in good faith, but any money would be in someone's personal account. <https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cd-dgc.nsf/eng/h_cs03925.html>. For things like the domain name, a shared email address could be used with the main officers having access to the email (for example, a gmail address). I can provide account/password info for the hosting company and server stuff to officers as well. There is no need for the group to lose control over hosting or domain name in the future. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 03:56, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

(one obvious point is around hosting/operating costs. if or when the site becomes successful enough to "consume" significant hosting resources, we will eventually need to secure financial support for that) Lx 121 (talk) 15:25, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

One good thing is that hosting costs do come down over time. I've gotten a really good deal at the moment for hosting on an 8gb server, $10/mo. Hopefully it will remain stable (and cheap). The current resources have room for growth, as long as it doesn't become a dumping ground for really large files. It may be important to have a clear mission that discusses growth (healthy vs. unhealthy). In my consulting work I focus on fast, mobile-friendly, highly usable websites (everything from the server/network up to the css/javascript. I don't think there are technical, or financial (hosting/server) problems that will happen right away. I know you went through a lot of issues recently, but I don't see any reason to think you can't have a reliable and responsive server at this point (after everything gets imported). Even if we are looking at doubling content every year (which is certainly possibly) there are a few years of runway in the current server. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 03:56, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I'm seeing this conversation and as far as I know, everyone has the same usernames. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:33, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

I don't mind being called Zephyrus or Zyephyrus. --Zyephyrus (talk) 16:29, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

comment - if you had an account on the old wikilivres.ca & if you create your account on the new site using the same name, you old userpages & contribs from the backup MAY "re-attach" themselves to your account. (my contrib list is slowly filling up, as the wiki restores) Lx 121 (talk) 16:44, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

login & account creation appear to be broken?

new wiki won't log me in, & yes, i am entering name & pw correctly. Lx 121 (talk) 14:53, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

new account creation is also not working; same red-letter error msg for both

"There seems to be a problem with your login session; this action has been canceled as a precaution against session hijacking. Go back to the previous page, reload that page and then try again."

Lx 121 (talk) 15:14, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Lx 121, try again now. I've restarted Apache. The server is slowing a bit with the import. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 15:29, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

The same problem has been posted at github (hm, with five pings and five mail I've got as I'm a subscriber), more over we have since yesterdaor so a temporary scriptorium for community talk there. I would suppose we try to discus these problems on one place (i.e. wikilivres), I guess it will be more convenient for JeffMcNeill as well instead of wsatching three different projects. (By the way, something with wrong password etc. happened to me yesterday late night as well, after the second try everything was OK). Cheers -jkb- (talk) 15:59, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

working for me now, thanks! have not tried account creation again; don't want to be accused of "sockpuppeting {;p) MUCH relieved! it's a horrible feeling; like being locked out of one's house, without the keys... (>__<)

one observation -- we probably shouldn't make the new wiki our main communication "hub" for the project, until we get mediawiki "teething & reliability" issues sorted (i.e.; it's no good trying to have a conversation about login problems, when you can't login to post to the conversation... ). Lx 121 (talk) 16:33, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

login & account creation fixed now

Hi guys, there are three things that were causing an issue with login/account creation:

• Import/Restore is taking up a lot of processor (and the database is getting slower as well, will have to optimize/compress after the process is through)
• I've been adding some extensions, and when I do I reload the web server, so if that is happening while you are making a request, it will go blooeey and you have to hard-refresh/reload the page
• There was a problem when I added the CheckUsers extension that caused a problem so the database would not create new accounts (fixed this).

It should be relatively back to normal now. CheckUsers however I had to disable as I'm unsure of the problem. Will research this. Bottom line is that I'm going to not try and implement new functionality at this point, until the restores are in place, and then I will schedule them so people know what to expect (in the future). --Jeffmcneill (talk) 16:42, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi, I can't login there right now. Regards, Yann (talk) 15:38, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Be patient - sometimes you can sometime you cannot ... I've just edited there. -jkb- (talk) 15:49, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

It hasn't worked for me to-day at all.

Please confirm if there are still login problems at this point. I'm not sure if anyone is still having trouble either creating an account, or logging in. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 05:50, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Will I suppress wiki classics cookies or is it better to keep them? --Zyephyrus (talk) 18:53, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Any cookies you are getting are from MediaWiki standard installation, so they are used to keep state (functional cookies) there are no tracking cookies. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 05:50, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

@Jeffmcneill: Yep, I'm locked out - " this action has been canceled as a precaution against session hijacking" - after I logged out just to try; new log in not succesful, also the creation of an alternqative account for internet cafes etc. not succesful (since yesterday). -jkb- (talk) 09:15, 2 April 2017 (UTC) - - - P.S. Paypal doesn't know British Indian Ocean Territory - what to do? -jkb- (talk) 09:35, 2 April 2017 (UTC) UK :-) ...

Same story for me, I've gone on being locked out.

This is why I wondered if the cookies will remember that we must be "canceled as a precaution against session hijacking", and if with suppressing cookies we could solve the problem? --Zyephyrus (talk) 09:42, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi folks, I've restarted the web server and people can log in again. There is something happening with the web server/database disallowing logins (it is not a cookies thing, that error message is incorrect). I will track this down. In the meantime, please email me <mailto:jeff@mcneill.io> when there is a serious problem like this, or send me telegram <https://telegram.me/jeffmcneill>. I'm currently on the Laos border, but there is 4g everywhere.

inside again :-) thanks -jkb- (talk) 11:00, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

The cookie/session/login problem has been fixed. Please email directly if you cannot login <mailto:jeff@mcneill.io>

IRC

Hi, FYI there is a IRC channel on Freenode called #wikilivres ;o) Yann (talk) 22:21, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

TODO list

Hi, First thank you to all who are helping to set this up again. I thought that it was gone forever, and it is back, and I am sure it will soon be great again! ;oD Yann (talk) 15:40, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

yep, since months I didn't know if it goes on or not, and I reduced my activities to nearly zero; now I'm looking forward to new future ! -jkb- (talk) 15:54, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Some things to do (please add if you see more):

• Fix login issue
• Logo + mini logo for the browser bar
• All needed extensions (list?)
• Restore user rights
• Localization (is very important (!), if it doesn't work [not clear now], we must fix it)
• fixing parsers like #if (I think it is a parser function) - see e.g. [1]

Thank you for this. I am adding it to the Technical Requests page on the new wiki. Please add any other items over there. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 05:53, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

1 thing more:

if the old wikilivres.ca site ever comes back up online, EVERYONE please oh please oh please grab/scrape/copy whatever you can of the work since 2017-02-20, immediately

we have lost SUCH a lot of stuff! >__<

(& if the domain name becomes available, we should discuss whether we want to get it back)

best Lx 121 (talk) 17:30, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Most-Needed Stuff

PD-pma|deathyear template

author page header template

(& we should start using an authority-control thing, now that we can)

My own back up

Btw. If there will be problem to back up all pages by Jeffmcneill (I see that the back-up was done alphabetical and stopped with the letter T - because same Templates are imported now) I have my own back-up files that I exported from Wikilivres on 2017.02.13. Threse files consist of separete files of each name space and have ca from 2MB to 220MB each. I have not pictures back up-ed, only pages. I can import them if it is needed, but there on new wiki is limit to import no more than 8MB only of each file - at this time I have no posibility to import more at once, I am afraid. But no hurry - maybe Jeffmcneill will finish his work withouth problem. Electron  ^<Talk?> 20:30, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi Electron, could you put your backup on a Google Drive or Dropbox account and share with me? It might be helpful to have that as well, since it is in different files with different sizes. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 05:57, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

OK. I have no time at this moment, but I see what can I do in the morning my time (I live in Poland, central Europe). To say the truth I don't used to net virtual drives (e.g. Google Drive or Dropbox), so I have no experienses with them but I see, what can I do. It is about 580MB after zips (in separate zip files). I have no broadband access to the net at this moment, so the upload can lasts long time. I'll try to start with upload with all what I have above letter T. Electron  ^<Talk?> 10:38, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

If it is easier to send email, you can try in 10mb per email. It doesn't have to be Drive/Dropbox, if you have another way getting the files somewhere I can get them. I could get you an SSH key to the server if you want to use scp or rsync. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 11:01, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

OK. I will try to sand the files by imail. I used more efficient 7z paker so there will be 11 e-mails (all ca 112 MB). All details are in my email. Electron  ^<Talk?> 00:29, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

You can try WeTransfer, see also [2] -jkb- (talk) 08:16, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the info, maybe I use it next time. I send it via e-mail, already. Electron  ^<Talk?> 12:53, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

christ, that is WONDERFUL! do you have everything (content) that was added from feb 20-on? or, what do you have? (trying to figure out what i need to redo) Lx 121 (talk) 15:23, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

sorry, mis-read; i thought you said 2017 03 17 :( Lx 121 (talk) 15:35, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Technical Requests on WikiLivres

Hi folks. There is a new status update available. It includes info on the restore, and the domain name. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 05:58, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi everyone, there are some questions about Templates on the Technical Requests page, import as I need to understand how these were used. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 19:21, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

I answered the question there but don't use '''[[WikiLivres:]]''' link, it goes to wikilivres.ca, as you know not working now ;) Electron  ^<Talk?> 23:19, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Good point, thanks Electron. Do you know where we can change the url for Wikilivres so that InterWikis are no longer broken? --Jeffmcneill (talk) 01:04, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

See: Special:Interwiki and mediawikiwiki:Extension:Interwiki, but I suppose that it can be changed here by an technical admin only. Electron  ^<Talk?> 01:55, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

I guess the phabricator is the right place, -jkb- (talk) 07:03, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Maybe we'll wait a moment. It is not clear if the our now address won't change... Electron  ^<Talk?> 09:53, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

ParserFunctions Enabled and a Question

Please see discussion on <https://wiki.classics.io/index.php/Wikilivres:Technical_requests#ParserFunctions_Update_and_Questions>

Maintenance script

@Jeffmcneill:, as I already wrote on github: does somebody know if the User:Maintenance script can get a bot flag? On wikilivres the recent changes are in the moment not readable again :-( cheers -jkb- (talk) 10:25, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi -jkb- I can look into this. But please let me know by "not readable again". I'm not sure what this means. Also, I'm running a bunch of scripts right now, and the "recent changes" is out of date until I run other maintenance scripts. --Jeffmcneill (talk) 10:49, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Suggestion: Archive this Talk page

Hi folks, there are so many issues on this page, many which are old, but some are new. I suggest archiving this page to make new issues more visible. Also, as the new site is up and running and people are logging in and editing pages, it would be easier to use the Technical Request page over there. The only advantage of this page here is that it can notify via email whereas ours cannot (yet). Thoughts? —unsigned comment by Jeffmcneill (talk) 13:12, 6 April 2017 (UTC).