Wikisource:Scriptorium

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See community talk in other language sub-domains: Català:La taverna - Česky:U pramene - Dansk:Skriptoriet - Deutsch:Skriptorium - En:Scriptorium - Español:Café - suomeksi:Kahvihuone - Français:Scriptorium - עברית:מזנון - Italiano:Bar - Nederlands:De kroeg - Polski:Skryptorium - Português:Esplanada - Русский:Форум - Türkçe:Köy çeşmesi 中文:写字间

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• Aug 2005 - Sep 2005 (through the move to language subdomains)
• Sep 2005 - Jan 2006 (months following the move language subdomains)
• Jan 2006 - Dec 2006
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• Jan 2008 - Dec 2008

Note: all archives are made by copy&paste, so that the whole history is here.

Contents 1 How to handle such ideas 1.1 Remarks to languages and orthography 2 Statistics 3 Open armed welcome 4 Wikisource bots 5 Pre-1923 works that are public domain in the USA but still copyrighted in their home countries 6 Errata policy 7 Source text in multiple languages 8 Can you import some texts from it? 9 Disconnected from global login 10 Quotes 11 desysops 12 Email on page changes 13 The quality and counting of subdomains 14 New subdomain, moving pages 15 Subdomain again 16 Chinese Wikisource adopting Proofread Page 17 Spanish Wikisource adopting Proofread Page 18 Wikisource translations 19 proposal to unify the Index and Page namespaces 20 English language on Thai wiki 21 Welcome image 22 Bugs and Butterflys 23 Author namespace 24 Proofread Page on oldwikisource 25 enable subpages in main namespace on all subdomains 26 Copyright of the logo? 27 database did not find the text of a page 28 why should category redirect appear in uncategorized categories? 29 What is Cross-namespace links and how to resolve it? 30 Special pages that are not being updated 31 How to "sign" my scriptorium posts? 32 Pages without language links 33 "Pages without language links" is tooooo long and is not shown fully 34 How to know length of the page we are creating/editing? 35 I want to make a new namespace named "figure:" 36 Why do we need categories for each of individual writer? 37 Official works like edicts of governments still copyrighted at home 38 Collection extension 39 Gadgets 40 Limburgish 41 Applying the text advancement to other wikis 42 Wikimania 2009 43 me and the mutation 44 Probably many copyrigt violations here 45 Albanian copyvios 46 revisionjumper (gadget) 47 Admin is needed 48 Wikipedia on the wheels 49 Aeres 50 Czornaruski 51 Middle Dutch 52 Bot run 53 it is summer time... 54 Wikimania 2009: Scholarships 55 OTRS 56 Possible documents for import 57 When Candalua is editing... 58 Bugs after software refresh 59 Import from Incubator 60 Request for Coptic Unicode insert characters in Edittools 61 ancient greek

[edit] How to handle such ideas

I am really not sure how to handle the creation of main pages for languages that are strongly ambivalent like the new creations here:

• Главная страница: Русскій языкъ - Russian, written in the spelling before the spelling reformation of 1918, see also User talk:Sasha1506
• Main Page:Полски - which is supposed to be Polish written in cyrillic ("new form of the Polish language, which I made fit into the Cyrillic script")

We should have some guidelines for this, such as an ISO number, existing Wikipedia etc. -jkb- 07:34, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

is the old russian refused at ru.ws ? ThomasV 11:21, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we have any reason to be strict about this. Let people create texts in whatever they want and choose whatever code they think is appropriate. If as time goes on they add serious material and attract new contributors great. If not nothing is lost. In any case creations like this probably will never meet any guidelines for getting a subdomain, but that is not our problem. In the meantime let them add whatever texts they want. (By the way, at the Incubator these kinds of things are allowed as tests, but they will never get domains.) Dovi 13:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Comment from ru.ws: a russian text in old spelling is allowed in ru.ws (e.g. see s:ru:Как постепенно дошли люди до настоящей арифметики). -- Sergey kudryavtsev 08:31, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

First, I agree that we should show some tolerant point of view. no problem with that. But here it seems to be something else (and I remember the discussions on an old English slang or whatever, which then went to en.source). The Russian is not another language, it is still the Russian, but written with some two or three special letters that have been cancelled after 1917. In fact the place for such texts is the ru.source. - - - The second one, Polish in cyrillic, is even more ambivalent: as you can read on the main page Main Page:Полски, somebody is creating this just now. Polish has never been written in cyrilic. Thus, I am not sure what impact it will have on people who have a look here to see what we have. Sure, testing is testing, but... And, it should be clear for everybody who see such a page that it is testing - not a serious language collection. Soon we have here people with Chinese texts written in Arabian and so on. Therefore I think there should have some rules or principles, very benevolent, not rigorous, but ... -jkb- 14:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, any text as it was published is fine, even if the langage has changed since the publication. However Polish written in Cyrillic is like a constructed langage, so I think it has no place here. Yann 16:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with what Dovi has said about existing languages; I agree with Yann's opinion about a language which doesn't exist.- --Zephyrus 17:32, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to explain shortly my intention when speaking about the Russian in the old spelling. The texts can be edited here or elsewhere, that is true. But if the texts fit the ru.source (and I think they do), so it would have some more positive sides: the users would learn from the just beginning the community, the environment and the rules of the subdomain. Later imports are more problematic. Therefore, I gues, the question of ThomasV - see above - should be answered first. -jkb- 16:29, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I have moved Main Page:Полски to User:IlStudioso/Полски and deleted the redirect.

I think that the Russian Wikisource project is the best place to put older forms of Russian, inc. Category:Old Church Slavonic. I have asked s:ru:User:Innv to help us out.

I have started developing "Wikisource:Languages", where I hope to list all languages on all Wikisource projects, telling contributors where works in each languages should be added. e.g. Old English goes on English Wikisource, in category s:Category:Old English works. We still have Beowulf and The Lords Prayer here. John Vandenberg 23:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

John Vandenberg 23:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, some two weeks ago I saw somewhere the message, that the Russian Wikisource accepts pages in Old Russian. Now I cannot find it, and there seem to be some difficulties with users in the subdomain. In the meantime the contributions here continue. I sked the Russian subdomain once again on a page that could be something like scriptorium (Викитека:Форум), I hope :-). -jkb- 15:49, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I repeat my comment above: a russian text in old spelling (before the reformation of 1918) is allowed in ru.ws (e.g. see s:ru:Как постепенно дошли люди до настоящей арифметики). A reading such text is very easy for a native speakers. But a spellcheck and a grammatical writing demands a special linguistic knowledge. Therefore a contributors with such skills welcomed on Russian Wikisource. -- Sergey kudryavtsev 08:31, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I see where it is now ... Now we have it twice here at least, so it is certain. :-) Thanks for the hint. -jkb- 08:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, of course these texts could be included and form a department inside of the Russian Wikisource. However it also could be kept separately for the reason "not creating a mess". Dmitrismirnov 11:16, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Remarks to languages and orthography

Well, I see the Old Russian Pages are growing here. I will not mind. But in fact it could be important fot the future. Therefore some remarks. Dmitrismirnov, when you say "texts could be included and form a department inside of the Russian Wikisource", so then the next argument from you "However it also could be kept separately" is not quite OK. Let us see the situation: no language, and I mean no language exists without changes. Following your arguments about mess the Germans could exclude all text written by Goethe or Heine (they do not follow the present orthography) or text written by Swiss authors, the Czechs clould exclude all text written before 19th century (there is a very great and odd difference in the writing), maybe the English Wikisource could exclude Shakespeare and others. First, it would obviously be a nonsence. Secondly, when you separate or divide the documents or literature of one language by this way you cannot, I repeat you cannot show the broad richness of a language's literature. And, you cannot offer the reader two or three different copies of the same work just to compare them. And this is also one of the mean goals of Wikisource. It is no mess when you have different orthographies of one language in one subdomain. In contrary, the collection of the documents could be even better. And, last but not least, I do not expect that Old Russian could ever get an own subdomain. Sooner or later you will have to move the text to the Russian Wikisource. And then, it will be very new for you to cooperate there. The best would be to go to the subdomain now, to learn their wiki rules and to develop a good rules to cooperate. But it is up to you. Regards, -jkb- 10:45, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I have seen the increase in Old Russian here, and dont mind whether it is here or on Russian Wikisource. I created Wikisource:Languages with the goal of recording where old languages should be added; e.g. Old English should go on English Wikisource, but there are still a few Old English pages here. I think Old Russian fits on Russian Wikisource better, for the reasons that -jkb- says, but there are other Slavonic languages which are also no longer used by modern people; we should also discuss where they should go, so that we have a clear picture of what should go where. Dmitrismirnov is a sysop on Russian Wikisource. I think Russian Wikisource sysops need to discuss this with us here. John Vandenberg 00:27, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. But I do not think that this is a very simple problem that has a very easy solution. So we will discuss this in the Russian Wikisourse. Dmitrismirnov 17:21, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

After the discussion at the Russian Wikisource Forum s:ru:Викитека:Форум#Русскій языкъ, it seems that we tend to move this section to the Russian Wikisource, but this will take some time. Until now I moved only 2 files and marked them here for deletion. Regards Dmitrismirnov 17:23, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Dmitrismirnov OK, and thanks for the message. How ever you decide so it will be. But, however, before you start moving the pages from here to there, please be sure that the pages will not be moved by copy+pasting, but better by transwikiing etc. Do you have somebody who can import from here to the ru.source??? Regards, -jkb- 18:32, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea how to do this (transwikiing etc). I need your help in this. At the moment I move them by copy+pasting. Dmitrismirnov 00:52, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Statistics

How do you get statistics for a language category (test-project) here, like the number of articles --Cradel 16:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Try {{PAGESINCATEGORY:category}}, -jkb- 16:15, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

While on the topic of statistics, there are fresh statistics at stats.wikimedia.org. For example, here is the page count. John Vandenberg 23:06, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Open armed welcome

Hello!

Same template with another image, in order to have a welcome template different from the one in en.wikisource, what do you think, do you agree? I have looked for an image with open arms, but what I have found is open wings, do you think they would suit the purpose?- --Zephyrus 06:45, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

The image itself is nice, no doubt, but I am not sure if it fits the sake. Might be something like two shaking hand? -jkb- 13:49, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Would this one do? - --Zephyrus 16:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, after I have seen some categorie on commons like commons:Category:Handshakes in art, I think something like this. Yes. But probably it would be better to make the background transparent. -jkb- 20:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Like this? Or do you prefer this one? We can see interesting possibilities here too.- --Zephyrus 18:42, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikisource bots

Hi to all. I would like to activate the beeing bots in the different subdomains and to increase their activity. As someones would recall some months ago there has been some problems with a bot (also on some wikinews domains etc.), claiming interwiki on wikisource is completely the same like on wikipedia, no experience or language practice is necessary etc. And now, meta introduced their global bots. As I still am sure that interwiki making on Wikisoruce is something very different and a general experience with Wikisource is a must, I would like to address those of us who have a bot: when making interwiki on your own subdomain, make more of them and do the same in other ones. For instance, Zumg visites cs.spurce from time to time and it is OK, some users make interwiki manually etc. Let us concentrate this jibe in the future. My suggestion. -jkb- 10:26, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pre-1923 works that are public domain in the USA but still copyrighted in their home countries

When Wikisource was opened to accept texts in all languages, we did not have a very clear copyright policy. After language subdomains were opened, different policies and guidelines have been developed. Hosting pre-1923 works that are public domain in the USA (possibly except in the 9th Circuit) but still copyrighted in their home countries is accepted on English Wikisource. However, I would like to discuss this issue while Japanese Wikisource is unwilling to host such a kind of works. For example, Japanese Wikisource has a deletion request about the Japanese lyrics of the Internationale that are still copyrighted in Japan (life + 50 years) even if being pre-1923. We once had them here at インターナショナル until moved to Japanese Wikisource.

As this Multilingual Wikisource site is no longer heavily used once language subdomains have broken away, I would like to suggest hosting pre-1923 works that are public domain in the USA but still copyrighted in their home countries, at this site if the corresponding language subdomains are unable to host them for the sake of their users. If there are no considerable objections to my thought, the 1922 version of the Japanese Internationale by Ōmi Komaki who died in 1978 may be hosted here through 2028, then in 2029, it will be moved to Japanese Wikisource when no longer copyright in Japan provided that the relevant law remains unchanged. Any comments or suggestions?--Jusjih 20:34, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

According to Ōmi Komaki, he died in 1952, so I don't understand why his works cannot be hosted on ja.ws if Japanese copyright law is 50 years pma. Otherwise, he is a good candidate to be hosted on Wikilivres. There is no Japanese works yet, but there are welcome there. Regards, Yann 21:15, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

That article contradicts itself. I have to further investigate whether he died in 1952 or 1978. If I cannot find the answer, I will err to 1978.--Jusjih 03:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Jusjih, I would support this as a good Idea, naturally, when there are no problems with the foundation (I suppose there are no ones). -jkb- 21:22, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I do not expect problems with the Foundation whose server is in Florida, USA. At this time, I would like to report that Chinese Wikisource does not formally exclude pre-1923 Chinese works that are PD in the USA but still copyrighted in Greater China. To facilitate this discussion, I have added a new column "Pre-1923 works copyrighted at home" at Wikisource:Subdomain coordination. Please report the situation at other subdomains if you know the answers, so when we are to amend the instruction on adding new pages, we can better tell which works are to be posted here or at language subdomains.--Jusjih 03:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I would like to hope as well there are no problems as we have some more texts like this on cs.source (having been deleted for some years). The question is what the Foundation says exactly. The US law is clear even for works published outside USA ([1]). But what about the second condition of the Foundation licensing policy - must the work be PD in the country where it was published or must it be PD in the subdomain according to the dedication of the work? I mean this: a Czech work, PD in the USA, but not PD in the Czech Republic, cannot be published in the cs.source as it is not free in the Czech Republic; but if published in the oldwikisource so it is not clear whom it is dedicated to (even if in Czech language). If this construction suits so OK. But I cannot find the actual text of the licensing policy of the Foundation in this question. -jkb- 08:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

After reviewing the foundation:Resolution:Licensing_policy, the Exemption Doctrine Policy involves a "project-specific policy, in accordance with United States law and the law of countries where the project content is predominantly accessed". Based on this, if any language subdomains feel uncomfortable hosting pre-1923 works that are still copyrighted in their home countries, they may make local policies forbidding them. This multilingual site has about 7000 articles. I am unsure where users are from, but hosting pre-1923 works that are still copyrighted in their home countries right here should not have major problems if we make clear copyright tags.--Jusjih 19:58, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

This is fine with me. Yann 22:03, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Right this was my question (and intention). Texts e.g. on the cs.source could be predominantly accessed vy Czech people. But text on the multi.source must not necessarily be dedicated to a special country, just like Czech emigree literature in the USA was not necessarilly dedicated to people living in Czechoslovakia but to emigrees, for instance. I think we could live with this. Sure, special tags should be used. -jkb- 22:21, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

To make a specific copyright tag, I would like to suggest importing w:Template:PD-US-1923-abroad. I will import when everything is in order. Language subdomains that allow pre-1923 works still copyrighted at home should also consider this kind of template. I will prepare doing so on Chinese Wikisource where visitors include Chinese living in Greater China and overseas. Even English Wikisource should consider this template to distinguish American and non-American works while most countries do not have pre-1923 public domain.--Jusjih 02:37, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

A template like that is very OK. I would only suggest that the text should be not only English but also in that language beeing concerned. The second point will be a decision how to categorize such pages (as all pages should be in a category. A language category is not sufficient here as we use language catgories for languages only we host here as whole. I would suggest to make a general category for these pages like e.g. Category:1923 (that could be categorized in Category:Languages), and then we could habe subcategories like Category:Japanese (1923), Czech (1923) etc. -jkb- 09:49, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Without objections here, I have imported Template:PD-US-1923-abroad with formatting to fit Wikisource. Please feel free to improve it including adding translations as needed. I am not planning to translate it into Chinese while Chinese Wikisource does not exclude pre-1923 works still copyrighted in Greater China. —unsigned comment by Jusjih (talk) 19:36, 3 August 2008.

I added a Czech translation to it (here); there is also a template with similar purpose for use in the subdomain here. What about the suggested categorisation? -jkb- 11:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I suggest bringing s:en:Category:Public domain in the United States. I am no admin on Czech Wikisource, so if you have any deleted Czech texts to be brought here, please undelete them temporarily and tell me, so I can import them.--Jusjih 22:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Wait. As English Wikisource already uses template codes of copyright tags in categories, these would be much more specific, such as PD-US-1923-abroad, PD-US-1923-abroad/CS, and PD-US-1923-abroad/VEC. This way will allow readers to identify which languages affected works are written in.--Jusjih 00:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Sure, language specific categories are good, see my idea above. This not only for the readers, but for the the users here as well to find texts that should be imported beck to the subdomain after it has got PD there as well.

Thanks for your offer to import our texts. But I think I will ask per bugzilla to enable for me the transwiki import at least from cs.source to multi.source and also vice versa, i.e. in both directions, as it will be helpfull in the future. Regards, -jkb- 08:14, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

To reflect the outcome of this discussion, I just updated MediaWiki:Newarticletext. For any administrator here, please improve the description as needed.--Jusjih 01:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

The existing templates (see Template talk:PD-US-1923-abroad) include the categories for CS, ZH and VEC, which are categorized in Category:PD-US-1923-abroad, and this one is categorized in Category:Languages as the first one. -jkb- 13:36, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Errata policy

Hi, does Wikisource have a policy for adding errata, that is identifying errors in the original?

For example, http://de.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Seite:Doppl_10.jpg&oldid=399660 contains an error in a mathematical formula. I imagine I could identify that by inserting ^{[Err 1]}, and down at the page an Errata-section with

1. ↑ x = (Q + α)/a should be: (a + α)/a

. Ceinturion 10:03, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I am afraid you have to contact the project itself - if the project handle errata so they would have different kinds to do so. -jkb- 11:22, 4 August 2008 (UTC) (corr., I was not logged in)

Yeah, that sort of thing is different from project to project. In the works I've added to German Wikisource, I've made footnotes that say "Sic" and then supply the correct word. However, I've noticed that the works displayed prominently on their front page do it the other way around: the correction is made in the main body of the text, and a footnote is added saying "Vorlage: XXX" (where XXX is the mistaken word of the original). —Angr 16:00, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I made the correction in the text, added a footnote "korrigiert, im Druck x = (Q + α)/a", and it appears at the end in a section named "Anmerkungen (Wikisource)" Ceinturion 15:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I think it will be OK. But, nevertheless, I like your Idea with <ref group=Err>, I think I will install something like that in cs.source soon. Regards. -jkb- 15:18, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Source text in multiple languages

I have found some source text which is written in both English and Malay (like a bilingual dictionary or a foreign language introduction). These texts are intended for English speaking audience, but there is substantial amount of Malay in them. Is it okay if I label these texts under Malay, and not giving it to the English Wikisource, provided that there are very few public domain Malay texts? Thanks. Aviator 12:57, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

This is a problem that has not been solved yet. More than one year ago I created the category Category:Multilingual as I did not know what to do with these pages - see Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/Jan 2007 - Dec 2007#category multilingual. But we have no guideline, that is the problem. It seems that in some cases it make sense - or it could make sense - to have a page with some more translations, but where is the limit? We surely do not want to host pages like Karl May's Vinetou in 54 languages. My multilingual category was just a first step and a semi solution in a situation without any rules. We should have some proposals to this point. -jkb- 14:46, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

There is one work that is truly multilingual: s:de:Index:Zwei-Plus-Vier-Vertrag.djvu and s:en:Index:Zwei-Plus-Vier-Vertrag.djvu (also Russian and French) For this work, we have transcribed the pages only on the appropriate subdomain.

We have a case of a English language introduction and footnotes. see s:en:Index:The New Testament in the original Greek - 1881.djvu. Because this is of significant value even without the English, it has been placed onto el to serve as a set of pagescans for the Greek New Testament. We have already found one error in the text that was in the text of Matthew. I do not know if we should transcribe the main text of this also onto the English Wikisource, and we have yet to decide how to handle the footnotes.

In order to give a better opinion, we would need to know which texts it is. John Vandenberg 10:52, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Some of the works I'm interested in:

• [2]: Malay language introduction (written in English, but contains substantial amount of Malay)
• [3]: English-Malay dictionary

Aviator 13:02, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I think that A manual of the Malay language. With an introductory sketch of the Sanskrit element in Malay belongs on English Wikisource, and A vocabulary of the English and Malay languages, in the Roman and Arabic character could go on either English or Malay project. (btw there is a table of contents on leaf 113). As far as I know, proper transcription projects have not been enabled here on wikisource.org. John Vandenberg 10:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Can you import some texts from it?

Hi, on it.ws there are some texts written in Venetian language... since the vast majority of Venetian texts (more than 1000 pages) is hosted here on oldwiki, is it possible to import the following pages from it, in order to have all Venetian works in the same place? I asked on it.ws, and they agree with the proposal. These are the pages:

1. s:it:Canto di pesca
2. s:it:Peregrinazioni lagunari
3. s:it:E na nana nana nana te canto
4. s:it:I piemontesi son partiti
5. s:it:Nana bobò
6. s:it:Povere filandine
7. s:it:De Babilonia civitate infernali
8. s:it:De Ierusalem celesti
9. s:it:Sirventés lombardesco (Auliver)
10. s:it:Ritmo bellunese

Regards, Candalua 13:50, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

I just finished importing their edit history to this portal, less Italian Wikisource templates. Please check if everything is fine. Thanks.--Jusjih 02:39, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Everything is fine. Thank you very much! Candalua 16:55, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disconnected from global login

This multilingual portal is disconnected from the global Wikimedia login. I am experiencing this. so I have to log in and out separately. Anyone else experiencing the same problem?--Jusjih 02:00, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

It happened to me quite often in last weeks, -jkb- 08:13, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

To be more precise: it happens not every time when i log out or log in, only sometimes. And, I think, once it happened on Commons, but I am not sure. -jkb- 10:25, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

It hasn't happened to me; perhaps it will. - --Zyephyrus 08:42, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Same problem to me, disconnected here and on Meta. --LadyInGrey 02:25, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I havent noticed it happening to me, but I will pay more attention now. John Vandenberg 01:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I have found a trick while the problem may not have been fully solved. I log in to this multilingual portal then I am also logged in to language subdomains and Wikimedia sister projects. Otherwise, when I logged in elsewhere I had to log in here by entering the password again.--Jusjih 03:20, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Quotes

At meta:Metapub#On disbanding Wikiquote there is a discussion about closing Wikiquote, and potentially importing the PD content into Wikisource. I have raised this separately on s:en:Wikisource:Scriptorium#Quotes, and I think it is worth discussion on each Wikisource project, and in a central fashion here. John Vandenberg 00:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

It should be surely discussed here. If it would happen so it would not only give us (i.e. each Wikisource subdomain) some new pages, but some new problems as well. We would not only get the pages but also the people who are responisble for the copyvios, more over users who are not common in editing Wikisource and who are more close to Wikipedias. (Apart from this I see some other points like quotes to different themes, what shall we do with languages that do not have an own subdomain etc. but this is to be discussed later). I am not quite happy about the idea. -jkb- 06:40, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

By the way, another problem qould be the question of copyright. The documents in Wikisource must clearly be free. The quotes not in the sense that as in many copyright laws a qoute from a non free work is possible. This difference would make additional problems in judging this. -jkb- 06:43, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

My comments I made on en:s hold here, as well. I think we should not have quotations on this project. The main reason being that of bias and value judgments, which we can largely avoid in WS's current practice. I'm of the opinion that not everything has to have a place on the Wikimedia projects (years of debate about what belongs on WS has made me a bit brittle on this subject), and so if WQ is shut down I see no problem in no one porting over all the content on WQ to "more relevant" projects.—Zhaladshar ^(Talk) 02:40, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps we should have some kind of box to put away obsolete projects like Wikiquote if closed, a special place (for history) protected once for all, publicly accessible for reading only. This box could be on multilingual ws, in a section that would be quite apart from the living sections..- --Zyephyrus 11:42, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I am not quite sure what you mean. Wikiquote is not obsolete, not at all, see meta:Metapub/On disbanding Wikiquote or s:en:Wikisource:Scriptorium#Quotes. And, if there would be some boxes about it, so they will be surely on meta. It seems there has been a problem on en.quote, but other domains are OK. -jkb- 12:27, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Of course I spoke about en.quote. What I meant was this: it has more to do with wikisource than with meta, because its content is texts by authors; but I agree with what Zhaladshar has said. Quotes is a different project, not to be mixed up with wikisource, and I would place it in an archive apart in wikisource if there is no other place, in order that it be not lost, but not integrated either.- --Zyephyrus 09:57, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] desysops

I have requested five desysops at Wikisource:Administrators#Vote for removal of administrator privileges. --John Vandenberg 01:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

no objections, -jkb- 06:20, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

No objections either. Yann 10:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

No objections. - --Zyephyrus 10:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

it's fine with me ThomasV 06:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

It's fine, but I will vote later. Despite much lower traffic here after language subdomains have broken away, this domain is still useful.--Jusjih 02:49, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Email on page changes

On English Wikisource, we have enabled email notification after discussion here, and bugzilla:13386 being created. I propose we add it here also, to increase participation in discussions, and to ensure people are aware of changes to content pages they created a long time ago. John Vandenberg 01:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I do not think I will use it as I do not use it nowhere up to now, but surely for people who do not watch their contributions often it could be a good help. -jkb- 06:31, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually this might be a good idea. I don't have it activated on en:s because I have an extensive watchlist full of high volume pages. But I have a much shorter watchlist here and would like to keep in touch with the main things happening on the Scriptorium.—Zhaladshar ^(Talk) 02:36, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Could be useful. Yann 10:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

bugzilla:15572 created. Please vote. John Vandenberg 07:47, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Configuration done. John Vandenberg 08:59, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, John.- --Zyephyrus 15:17, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The quality and counting of subdomains

In the mailing list there were several mails concerning a possible changes like counting the pages / words etc. of the language subdomains. Apart from the fact that the mailing list some times concerns themes that impact the en.source only, I would say that a discussion on the pages here would be some times better structurable than mailing list. As I followed the discussion in meta about this point concernig wikipedia, I think a discussion on the Scriptorium pages of the multisource could help a bit, simple because it is an interesting theme. -jkb- 19:04, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

There is a need to update the main page, as Persian now needs to be added to the main circle. See Talk:Main_Page#Corrections.

Database words shows a different story, but those stats are out of date. John Vandenberg 07:36, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm really still wondering about the Persian WS, they did something one week and since then it happens quite nothing. But beside this fact, another counting would be probably good as I saw some more projects with robotic crations of thousands of nearly empty pages. Is there anything new with counting the subdomains by words? -jkb- 16:30, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New subdomain, moving pages

Ehm, something stopped in developing, see the request Wikisource:Administrators#User:VasilievVV, see li:Veurblaad (obviously created in May, all pages moved at the same time), and see Category:Limburgish. Something should happen with it. -jkb- 20:09, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Subdomain again

Is it necessary, just like in the incubator to create pages with the language subdomain? Meursault2004 14:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

You mean like having a page in Irish called "wikisource.org/wiki/ga/Title" and a page in Afrikaans called "wikisource.org/wiki/af/Title"? No, pages here are just called "wikisource.org/wiki/Title", but they're included in categories like Category:Gaeilge and Category:Afrikaans to indicate what language they're in. —Angr 06:19, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes indeed, that is what I mean. Because at Incubator it is required to do so. Meursault2004 11:42, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

We do not use prefixes on this wiki as far as I know. A reason against doing it is that the pages will need to be renamed when they are moved to a subdomain.

We could request a new namespaces for each language. John Vandenberg 16:19, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I have asked the Language subcommittee for guidance about this. John Vandenberg 16:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Meursault2004 21:54, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I have no experience with separate / single namespaces for every language and have no idea about hte difference to the present system. Can somebody explain it or give an example? -jkb- 16:25, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps you can take a look at the Incubator: http://incubator.wikimedia.org Meursault2004 17:55, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese Wikisource adopting Proofread Page

s:zh:User:Wmrwiki has started setting up text on pages. They have two pages. The category names in s:zh:Template:PageQuality need to be translated; translatewiki has some simplified Chinese. Once that is done, can we add them to Wikisource:ProofreadPage_Statistics? --John Vandenberg 03:27, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

to be added to the stats they need a namespace ThomasV 09:27, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I have set up s:zh:索引:致一家英文報刊主編的信, s:zh:Template:Index and asked Jusjih to create the redirect from s:zh:MediaWiki:Proofreadpage index template to s:zh:Template:Index. Once that is done, we can create the bug. We need to know the namespaces to request:

Index = 索引

Index talk = ?

Page = 页面

Page talk = ?

John Vandenberg 11:17, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The redirect is done. What is next?--Jusjih 01:10, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Three more things to do:

1. We need to know what the four namespaces should be called. I have guessed above what "Index" and "Page" should be called, and we also need to know what "Index talk" and "Page talk" should be called. The zh.ws community might like to chat about these names.
2. s:zh:MediaWiki:Proofreadpage index namespace and s:zh:MediaWiki:Proofreadpage namespace needs to be set.
3. someone needs to raise a bug in bugzilla. Like bugzilla:14732 for Greek Wikisource.

John Vandenberg 03:53, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

All the other namespaces at zh-Wikisource seem to be in English ([4], [5], [6], [7]), as indeed they are at zh-Wikipedia ([8], [9], [10], [11]). That being the case, it might make sense to just keep the namespaces "Index", "Index talk", "Page", and "Page talk". —Angr 14:49, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

When prefixing the namespace types other than articles on Chinese Wikimedia sites, we use English because the split of traditional and simplified Chinese makes using Chinese prefixes too hard for now. Would you like me to translate more namespace types to Chinese? If so, I will specify traditional and simplified Chinese.--Jusjih 01:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I have created bugzilla:15722 based on the comments by Angr and Jusjih. John Vandenberg 15:13, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish Wikisource adopting Proofread Page

Using the namespaces defined in translatewiki, es.ws has creating two index and lots of pages.

I have created bugzilla:15775 to request the namespaces be created:

Page       = Índice
Page talk  = Índice Discusión
Index      = Página
Index talk = Página Discusión

John Vandenberg 09:30, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

John, can you change the bug for this?

Page       = Página
Page talk  = Página Discusión
Index      = Índice
Index talk = Índice Discusión

Changed. -Aleator (talk) 17:12, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that. Thank you! John Vandenberg 22:04, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Another one: ca.wikisource needs the same, (pages and index)

Page       = Pàgina
Page talk  = Pàgina Discussió
Index      = Índex
Index talk = Índex Discussió

thanks, --LadyInGrey 15:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, we were waiting to the end of the period of voting (1 october) to ask for the namespaces (s:ca:Viquitexts:Presa de decisions/2008/Nous espais de noms). In a few hours it concludes. Now I will open a bugzilla. The namespaces names for :s:ca should be those:

Page = Pàgina

Page talk = Pàgina Discussió

Index = Llibre

Index talk = Llibre Discussió

Lady, quizás en Wikisource español querráis "Libro" en lugar de "Índice"? Gracias por el aviso, Lady ;). -Aleator (talk) 16:58, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Bugzilla 15784 -Aleator (talk) 17:12, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikisource translations

s:en:Category:Wikisource translations and s:fr:Catégorie:Traduction Wikisource contain collaborative translations. If the other subdomains accept free translations, could they please add a category for these and interwiki link them together. I see quite a few on Spanish Wikisource that can be grouped together. Russian Wikisource has s:ru:Кутенаи. John Vandenberg 01:31, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] proposal to unify the Index and Page namespaces

I have started a rough proposal to unify the Index and Page namespaces: Wikisource:Unify transcription namespaces

I believe this will simplify the transcription system, making it more friendly to new users. Feel free to contribute or critise it. John Vandenberg 18:30, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] English language on Thai wiki

s:th:เพลงคริสต์มาส is a list of Christmas carols in the English language, and s:th:Auld Lang Syne is another. Should it be acceptable for projects to have texts in other languages? There are benefits like s:th:Boar's Head Carol adding footnotes in Thai, and s:th:ผู้แต่ง:เบน จอนสัน giving Thai readers a better experience than s:en:Author:Ben Jonson. John Vandenberg 13:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome image

Hi, the image of the Template:Welcome seems to have disappeared. (It was Image:Reading.gif). Il have put a provisional one. - --Zyephyrus 15:29, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

First, just now since some 10000 seconds some servers are down, secondly, today or tommorow the namespace for IMAGE will be changed to FILE (with an allias). So just wait what happens. -jkb- 15:55, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikimedia Commons deleted the previous image per commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/Images_of_Paulwhiteway due to copyright dispute. It is still linked from so many pages in so many Wikimedia sites. Hopefully a bot will delink them as I cannot do it manually.--Jusjih 23:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I emailed "Paulwhiteway" when commonsdelinker did its magic; I hope he can prove the images are his. I havent seen a reply (yet). John Vandenberg 02:29, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bugs and Butterflys

Please help build:

• Wikisource:Bugs - list of wikisource problems
• Wikisource:Completed texts - list of Wikisource beauties

John Vandenberg 09:28, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Quite a very good idea - you have my support, -jkb- 13:58, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Mine too! - --Zyephyrus 21:57, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Author namespace

While importing {{no header}}, I realised that we dont have an Author namespace here.

Wikisource:Subdomain coordination says that oldwikisource does not have an Author namespace, however we have a lot of pages with a prefix prefix.

Special:PrefixIndex/Author

Special:PrefixIndex/Autor

These pages have been mostly created by Candalua (talk • contribs) for Category:Vèneto, however Author:Mohandas K. Gandhi was created by Yann back in September 2004.

We need some structure to manage Author pages because

1. some text will always remain on oldwikisource
2. incubating projects should create and manage Author pages, and we should help them

I have restored Category:Authors.

Do we want an "Author" namespace on this wiki? John Vandenberg 03:49, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proofread Page on oldwikisource

I think we should request to have mw:Extension:Proofread Page enabled on oldwikisource for two reasons:

• There are digitised works in languages that may never accepted to have a subdomain
• Incubated language projects should use this extension here before they start a new subdomain project.

We will attract more scholarly contributors to oldwikisource if they are able to proofread scanned images.

For example, there are a lot of works on archive.org that are in Category:Volapük, and also Javanese, which has an active team of contributors here. John Vandenberg 06:56, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree, they ought to have it too.- --Zyephyrus 08:52, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Aviator 05:50, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. --LadyInGrey 16:49, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Agreed. I'd like it for Irish, which is here. —Angr 08:10, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• Agreed. Every Wikisource schould sooner or later start to improve the quality (not only the quantity), and this feature helps to do that. And, if the languages start to get used of it here, so they will have an advantage to continue later. However, I am not sure if there could be a problem. I had a look at the German Wikisource where they use it and I am not sure if 1. there will not be a chaos when more languages use this system at the same time (including the new special name spaces), and 2. if it will be possible to transfer all done work to a new subdomain (when it is created later). Might be somebody who has more experience could answer these questions. Otherwise: support. -jkb- 12:44, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Has anyone filed a bug at bugzilla yet? What's the current status of this proposal? It's been quite months now.. I think we should give this a go already. Aviator 14:40, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] enable subpages in main namespace on all subdomains

In 2005, Wikibooks enabled subpages on all subdomains. See meta:Wikibooks should use subpages, meta:Help:Link#Subpage activation and bugzilla:1353.

I think Wikisource should do the same for oldwikisource and all sub-domains if possible. If there is no objections, we should raise this for discussion at meta:Meta:Babel to solicit opinions from the other projects.

Are there any sub-domains that dont want subpages in the main namespace? John Vandenberg 09:10, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

In Russian wikisource subpages in the main namespace already enabled. -- Sergey kudryavtsev 10:21, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the data at (very large file) noc: InitialiseSettings.php for variable "$wgNamespacesWithSubpages", these wikis have subpages enabled:

cs, en, he, hu, id, it, ml, no, pt, ru, tr, vi, and zh

Many are missing, and oldwikisource is also missing. John Vandenberg 11:06, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

The subpages feature is very usefull for Wikisources and shoud be done here and recomended to other subdomains. -jkb- 11:23, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

enabled, see here, -jkb- 14:04, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

This doesnt appear to have worked for oldwikisource. Moving Jv/Alkitab should ask whether the user wishes to move all subpages as well. John Vandenberg 00:27, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Rights. It should appear. But does not. I have just tried a move in de.source, where it was not enabled before, and there is the question. Probably we have some problems again with our multisource like in the question of interwikis. -jkb- 00:42, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright of the logo?

Anyone know what the licensing on Image:Wiki.png is? John Reaves 22:54, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I believe commons:Image:Wikisource-newberg-de.png is the original. John Vandenberg 00:33, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] database did not find the text of a page

this question by User:Vsrawat has been moved to here from my talk page - -jkb- 08:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

http://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%A4%8B%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A6:_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%82_1.36
http://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%A4%8B%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A6:_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%82_1.38
http://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%A4%8B%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A6:_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%82_1.50

The above links are appearing in Uncategorized Pages, but when I go to them, it says like > The database did not find the text of a page that it should have found, named "ऋग्वेद: सूक्तं 1.50" . > This is usually caused by following an outdated diff or history link to a page that has been deleted. > If this is not the case, you may have found a bug in the software. Please report this to an administrator, making note of the URL.

hence reporting to you. Please suggest what is to be done. I have otherwise removed the problems of some 400 Pages of Hindi/ Sanskrit that were listed in Uncategorized Pages yesterday.

(not signed, by User:Vsrawat)

Some special pages like this one are coming from cache so that you have to wait a bit for updating. Probably it is the case. -jkb- 08:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

bugzilla:16674 --Brion VIBBER 18:32, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

thanks, -jkb- 19:15, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] why should category redirect appear in uncategorized categories?

The following two categories are appearing in the special pages uncategorized categories:
19. # Category:रवींद्रनाथ टैगोर
20. # Category:रवींद्रनाथ ठाकुर

As there were three categories for the same person (different spellings of name), I have used a category redirect of Template:Category redirect so that the above two get redirected to this correct spelling.

Why is it still showing these two in "uncategorized categories"?

Thanks.
-Vsrawat

The template apparently does not exist. And those category pages are really uncategorized - just check their source.
— Danny B. 11:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What is Cross-namespace links and how to resolve it?

There is a special page called "Cross-namespace links".

What does it imply and what is the solution for the pages appearing in it?

Thanks.

-Vsrawat

Eg. pages in Wikisource: namespace linking to Help namespace. Intended mainly for main namespace to not to link to other namespaces - such links should be done via URL syntax.
— Danny B. 11:13, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Special pages that are not being updated

What is the purpose of showing the following Special Pages that are last updated months ago and are not being updated any more?
- Cross-namespace links
- Dead-end pages
etc.

Shouldn't they be removed altogether if nothing needs to be done on that?

-Vsrawat

Known issue. They might be updated once in longer time (say monthly or once every quarter). They're off because of performance reasons. Re the removal: There's bug filed about visible labeling of all special pages - lists with labels like "cached", "off", "ad hoc" or so.
— Danny B. 11:19, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How to "sign" my scriptorium posts?

In the posts of other members, I see their username linked to their Talk pages and the date/ time appearing. These are not appearing when I am posting a message.

Is there any method to get this info automatically appended to my posts?

-Vsrawat

Dear Vsrawat, namaskar.

To 'sign' with date and time,you have to enter --~~~~ , or click on edit menu button, 2nd from right. Thanks. --Ashok modhvadia 10:12, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pages without language links

I had updated the language Category in these Pages on 14th Dec and some already have at least one language earlier also but these are still appearing in the Special Pages without language links? What gives?

Thanks.
- http://wikisource.org/wiki/User_talk:Vsrawat

Language category (such as [[Category:Hindi]]) is not the interwiki link, which would be eg. [[en:<pagename>]] to link to English pages. Categories are for local categorization here (and such category won't be necessary once the new Wikisource in your language will be created), interwiki links are for pointing to the same document in other language.
— Danny B. 11:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Pages without language links" is tooooo long and is not shown fully

Seems that Pages without language links has more entries but it showing only first 5000 entries. Further, we can browse it in chunks of 20-500, so it takes lot of next-next to reach the end of list (where my Unicode language Hindi/Sanksrit's entries are supposed to appear).

The option should be provided to directly start browsing from some particular no. onwards (say, 2000, 4500, etc.) for quicker browsing, and the remaining entries should be shown.

Thanks. http://wikisource.org/wiki/User_talk:Vsrawat

You can browse the entire list without pagination.
— Danny B. 11:22, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How to know length of the page we are creating/editing?

The Long pages does show pages sized more than 1MB and it can be understood that these would take a lot of time to view and to get saved while editing.

1. is there any norm (thumb rule) for the ideal max size of a wiki page that we/users should try to limit their pages to?

IMHO, 50 to 100 KB is OK. Yann 11:26, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

(Note: My language is Unicode Hindi/Sanskrit that keeps each character in two bytes, so the pages do go long even when the displayed content is not that long.)

2. When we create a page, there should be some option/ button/ keyboard shortcut that we click/type and the size of the page gets displayed so that we can split it to various pages to keep its size within tolerable limits. At least, the page size should be shown at the time of creating/ updating/ saving, so that we can know right there that we have created a giant that would be inconvenient to view for people.

Go to the "Page History" where the size is revised after each edit. Eclecticology 08:18, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

3. Wiki should give some option in which if click something like "split" on a page, it is automatically broken into individual pages of a tolerable size as per wiki norm, and an Index/ Menu is automatically created giving links of each page thus created.

The software can't know where to split the pages, but there is a "gadget" which might help. See the English Wikisource for examples. Yann 11:26, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

4. Also, Long pages list needs to be sorted. It is very inconvenient to look at the entire list to find out the pages in our languages' scripts.

Thanks.
http://wikisource.org/wiki/User_talk:Vsrawat

You are doing a great work on Sanskrit. Regards, Yann 11:26, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I want to make a new namespace named "figure:"

W:Twenty-Four_Histories records a lot of people,and may be another book touch on them or them may be also write some books,I want to collect them in one page,"figure:".How about?--Wmrwiki 12:38, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

special pages do say that they have got updated but I see the same information appearing in them days after days.

- On Broken redirects page, the following entries are appearing as crossed, that means they have got resolved and should be removed but they continue appearing.

1. User:Seha
2. User talk:Erwin
3. User:Julian Mendez
4. User:Synthebot
5. User talk:Julian Mendez
6. User talk:Synthebot

- On Uncategorized pages, the following entries are appearing which are OK pages, but they continue appearing. Some were also reported earlier in scriptorium.

1. अरण्यकांड
2. ऋग्वेद: सूक्तं 1.36
3. ऋग्वेद: सूक्तं 1.38
4. ऋग्वेद: सूक्तं 1.50
5. कहानियाँ
6. बालकांड

- On Uncategorized categories, the following entries are appearing which are actually ok redirect pages, still they continue appearing:

1. Category:रवींद्रनाथ टैगोर
2. Category:रवींद्रनाथ ठाकुर

Seems there is some problem in wiki maintenance or wiki software. Wiki should provide correct information promptly so that people can help correct it.
-Rawat 13:48, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

"Uncategorized pages" and "Broken redirects" are irregularly updated, not real time information, because of performance issues. Yann 23:46, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why do we need categories for each of individual writer?

There are 100s and 1000s of individual writers. It would create a mess if we have categories for each and every writer. And if we have categories for some, it would put remaining ones who don't have categories in lesser vain. I suggest that all the categories of individual writers be removed.-Rawat 09:27, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

It is useful when a writer has a lot of small independent works (i.e. poems), then a category is the easiest way to have a complete alphabetical list. Yann 23:43, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Official works like edicts of governments still copyrighted at home

In addition to #Pre-1923 works that are public domain in the USA but still copyrighted in their home countries now accepted here if forbidden by language subdomains, I would like to raise a concern of official text like edicts of governments still copyrighted at home. Most countries and areas copyrighting their edicts of governments officially speak English and possibly other languages. English Wikisource has s:Template:PD-EdictGov for official works considered by the US Copyright Office Practices to be ineligible for copyright even if they are still copyright-restricted at home. After intensive debates, some of these works were once deleted when considering the source country copyright, but they were undeleted after applying § 206.01 of the Compendium II: Copyright Office Practices while most users of English Wikisource users are Americans and non-American users have not raised major objections.

However, hosting edicts of governments still copyrighted at home may be unwise at other language subdomains. For example, Chinese Wikisource probably has at least Mainland China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan as the countries and areas where the project content is predominantly accessed defined by wmf:Resolution:Licensing policy. Whether to host Hong Kong edicts of governments still copyrighted there would cause more concern than on English Wikisource, so I am hosting a policy vote. For now, I do not expect hosting copyrighted Hong Kong edicts of governments on Chinese Wikisource feasible.

After all, I would like to propose allowing this multilingual portal to host edicts of governments still copyrighted at home and rejected by language subdomains due to "local" copyright concerns and policies. Any comments? If no major objections here, I will make necessary copyright tags to explain why host them here but not language subdomains.--Jusjih 03:36, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

After waiting for several weeks, hosting edicts of governments still copyrighted at home has been passed 4-2 on Chinese Wikisource, so I will not bring Hong Kong edicts of governments still copyrighted there to this portal.--Jusjih 04:03, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Collection extension

Are there plans to implement the Collections extension for us (wikisource.org) as well? Anrie 12:43, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

see bugzilla:15970, -jkb- 13:42, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

As reported in mailing list it has been anabled for all Wikisources and - I hope - should be seen soon in the toolbox. -jkb- 08:52, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

See bugzilla:15970 - we have been forgotten :-) but now it is here. Enjoy, -jkb- 21:51, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Gadgets

Would it be okay to copy a gadget or two to MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition? It would really help some of the more time-consuming, tedious things I need to do. Anrie 17:12, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

can you describe them a bit? If they are OK and if nobody protests so i can edit them in the page (it is open to admins only). -jkb- 17:37, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, the one I recently discovered, that could be very helpful is an editing gadget called [wikiEd]. The content of [12] will need to be copied to our MediaWiki:Gadget-wikEd.js and then linked to from MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition. I don't see how anyone can protest too much - if you want to use it, you'll have to say so in your preferences. Other people won't even notice it, since it's not installed in the Monobook.js. Anrie 19:29, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

OK I'll do it this evening or tomorrow, then you will have it. Cheers, -jkb- 16:31, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

So, I've implemented the wikEd tool here and hope it works (the page is some 360 kB long). Cheers, -jkb- 11:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

-jkb- Thanks! ---Zyephyrus 13:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Excellent! Thank you very much, jkb. Anrie 16:41, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

The pleasure is on my side :-), -jkb- 16:10, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Limburgish

Limburgish has its own Wikisource edition since May 2008. The texts were imported on that wiki. But the old ones (355 pages) are still present here. See Category:Limburgish. Shouldn't they be deleted? --::Slomox:: >< 17:59, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

yep, see [13], -jkb- 21:07, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Applying the text advancement to other wikis

Hello, I'm a User in the Arabic Wikisource and was wondering how I would put the button of text advancement in the edit menu to the Arabic wikisource. Applying this would help a lot in knowing the quality of Pages and is tremendously needed. Thanks a lot.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 13:29, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

You have an answer here.---Zyephyrus 20:24, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Wikimania 2009

Wikimania 2009, this year's global event devoted to Wikimedia projects around the globe, is accepting submissions for presentations, workshops, panels, posters, open space discussions, and artistic works related to the Wikimedia projects or free content topics in general. The conference will be held from August 26-28 in Buenos Aires, Argentina. For more information, check the official Call for Participation. Cbrown1023 talk 18:25, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] me and the mutation

As some people asked me what's going on hereby I make a short statement concerning my edit on the Czech Wikisource beginning of November 2008 announcing my "75-%-wikibreak" there.
Since say 2007, as there were more and more tensions on the Czech Wikipedia (RfC's and Arbcom's on mobbing and other problems, desysopings, personalizing of problems, other conflicts) I decreased my activity there and concentrated myself on cs.source. But by the time and since spring 2008 the conflicts swapped into the Wikisource subdomain. People who did not work in the subdomain tried to take influence on different questions; two admins of the cs.wiki accused me to be a dictator and the cs.source (i.e. me) should censore free meanings (more times contributed by two admins there, my request to clear this had no influence; this is quite serious as the cs.source needed new users); attempts to unify cs.source with other Czech projects were made, in the same time my wording "Czech Wikisource is a subdomain of the multilingual one" was reverted several times to a "Czech mutation"; after I deleted some 25 long time copyvios in October I was accused (BTW by one of the leading members of the Czech branch of the Wikimedia Foundation) that I decreased the value of the subdomain by fifty per cent (there are some 7000 pages); also in November the second bureaucrat (with some other people - ???) started an inquiry about the future of Wikisource - I got notice of it from an announcement in Scriptorium (my question, why nobody contacted me before is still without an answer, as well I do not know the results); etc. etc. etc.
Additionally, I strongly do not agree when not active users - or even IP's - take influence on the future of the subdomain (posting bugs for new namespaces etc. without a consensus, after some IP's and not active users decided it); I do not agree when when conflicts from outside are imported.
This is only a very short and simple (and probably POV) description of what happens on the Czech projects. Anyway, there must be a point to stop after I took part there since May 2004 although living in Germany; and I'm not like to colaborate with users (e.g. the second bureaucrat), who are reverting my former approved edits as "infantilities". After a long time of thinking about it I rejected my first decission, I will not stop being active on Wikimedia project. But I have to find new priorities.
Thus, I do not see any chance to take influence on the development there, and thus I cannot take the responisbility there after November 1st 2008. I keep my bct rights however. And, I would not like to see any imports of problems I mentioned to this domain. -jkb- 21:18, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Probably many copyrigt violations here

I think there is a lack of information and control about possible copyright violations - here and also on some subdomains, primarilly on the small ones. We have to find a sollution, but I do not know which one. I noticed a discussion on meta at m:Wikimedia Forum#Copyright policy on Albanian Wikipedia (after archiving: February 2009) and I followed also on the Albanian Wiki (oh gosh, the google translator is a unbelieviable horrible innovation), then I discovered some possible Copyvios (images + texts) here, too (see User talk:Tufche#Question on possible copyvios and User talk:Cradel#please see...). I will work on it this week, I gues the images and the texts must be tagged as copyvios, but there is a lot of another albanian pages which I do not understand and further pages which are a sort of "analysis" and "fragments" - I am very sceptical about this.

However, in the past we did not look at this problem, when a language section had a sufficient amount of pages a new subdomain was created. We assumed that the users learned something on copyright in the Wikipedias. But now it seems to me to be a mistake. Sure, languages like Limburgish or Upper Sorbian have no problem - they learn it e.g. in the German Wikipedia. But not all. And I am not sure whether we know how many copyrigt violations we host on this domain. Probably many ones. I am not sure how to solve this problem - just discuss. -jkb- 21:22, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I generally agree that many people have no idea about copyright issues, so a lot of copyrighted texts are published on Wikisource. The fact that, according to Mike Godwin, Wikimedia Foundation layer, any text should be public domain in USA, that the USA do not recognize the rule of shorter term, and that the copyright of many foreign texts were restored by URAA make explaining copyright issues very difficult. It is also difficult to do something when the language is not understood. Yann 21:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree that it is quite difficult here when we do not understand the most languages (so I do not). But, when I click on the links and see that the text comes from a living author born 1960 and when I do not find a notice (and an OTRS-mail, I can read them) that he or she allows the text under the PD conditions, so I can assume it is a copyvio. And I am like to tag some ones. -jkb- 16:05, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Albanian copyvios

As I announced above (#Probably many copyrigt violations here) I will have to tag some more files and pages as copyvios. See

• Wikisource:Possible copyright violations#Photos of Albanian authors - 6 files
• Wikisource:Possible copyright violations#Albanian authors and their work - copyvio as not sufficient for 70 years after death

Please see there for further discussion, thanks, -jkb- 11:57, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] revisionjumper (gadget)

I have installed today here a provisory version of so called revisionjumper by w:de:User:DerHexer. In the next days we shall continue to work on it and so I hope we shall have a manual soon. I guess it will be installed on en.wiki soon as well. The German manual is to be found here: w:de:Benutzer:DerHexer/revisionjumper, the English manual will be soon at Wikisource:Revisionjumper. Test it, you can find it in the preferences, active there the gadget revisionjumper. Please use the page Wikisource talk:Revisionjumper to give us your experience with it. -jkb- 18:49, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Admin is needed

Dear Colleagues! Hungarian Wikisource page surpassed the Thai one, see Husource. Please see to it, that this Wikisource gets in the circle on the front page of Wikisource. We are very happy to congratulate our Hungarian friends!! --Burumbátor 08:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

First, congratulations for it. And then, I personally do not know how to handle it: the statistics say thai 12636, hungarian 12659, polish 12550 (just now) that means that we could change it very often in the next days. Wait for another admins what they say. Go on, -jkb- 09:26, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I will not update it, because there is an ongoing discussion on changing the main page. see this discussion, and the mailing list. ThomasV 11:27, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

You know it. Concerning frequent updating: Thai wiki moves one article/week, Polish wiki moves 10 articles/week, Hungarian wikisource moves 300 articles/month. But again, you know it, I cannot read all long discussions, just drew your attention: in the circle now there is a wikisource (Thai), which is already superseeded by another one, thus does not represent the real statistics. Regards, --Burumbátor 17:11, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

After 3 days: Hungarian 12,828, Thai still 12,636, Polish: 12,522. --89.237.252.122 10:45, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Done There is significant growth here, and while the discussions continue the Hungarians can enjoy their time in the sun. John Vandenberg 13:02, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, boys! :) We want to enjoy a few days in the sun, and I think the guys really made a very important effort, all legal texts! By now it is 12,898...

Thanks again! --Burumbátor 15:38, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia on the wheels

We seem to have a new Wikipedia here in Wikisource. Today, I saw by a chance the new page Main Page:Peçenek, then I had a look at the Category:Pecheneg which is full of subcategories and articles. I controlled some ten or twelve, the most of them from January or February 2009, and I am sure, somebody created here a new Wikipedia, not Wikisource. What now? -jkbx- 08:11, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

notice and delete, imo ThomasV 10:56, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

See Wikisource:Proposed deletions, -jkbx- 18:21, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Aeres

I'd propose to delete Main Page:Aeres and the whole project. It's a made-up language and the inventor isn't working on it anymore. Is there any reason to keep projects like that? --::Slomox:: >< 16:40, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

See Wikisource:Proposed deletions, -jkbx- 18:21, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Czornaruski

And what's the language of Category:Czornaruski? Google knows "Czornaruski" only as a surname. --::Slomox:: >< 17:00, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

See Wikisource:Proposed deletions, -jkbx- 18:21, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Middle Dutch

And Category:Middle Dutch is completely covered by the Dutch Wikisource. The test project should be deleted. --::Slomox:: >< 17:03, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

See Wikisource:Proposed deletions, -jkbx- 18:21, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Bot run

I'd like to bot create a series of information templates about writers for the Low Saxon test project. It's a list of 630 pages. Should I apply for bot status (where?) or does anybody else with a bot-flag do the bot run for me? --::Slomox:: >< 20:41, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Or should I just go ahead without flag? --::Slomox:: >< 13:59, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

I can give you bot flag; please create a separate user for the bot ThomasV 15:11, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

My bot account is User:Slobot. --::Slomox:: >< 22:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] it is summer time...

A little bit new feature: in the preferences you can choose your time zone, then you do not have to change the difference to the UTC even when the winter time changes to summer time. it should function. -jkb- 11:58, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Wikimania 2009: Scholarships

Wikimania 2009, this year's global event devoted to Wikimedia projects around the globe, is now accepting applications for scholarships to the conference. This year's conference will be handled from August 26-28 in Buenos Aires, Argentina. The scholarship can be used to help offset the costs of travel and registration. For more information, check the official information page. Please remember that the Call for Participation is still open, please submit your papers! Without submissions, Wikimania would not be nearly as fun! - Rjd0060 02:20, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] OTRS

Since maybe 2006 or 2007 I have the OTRS access, that I requested for me as user of the cs.source. I am not quite sure if this will be important here in the future, but maybe we could discuss if it would be advantageous to have a own OTRS address for the Oldwikisource or for all wikisources. To request it schould be easy. We could decide who should request the access for this channel (as OTRS is divided in many ones), I can do it by myself as well. What about it? -jkb- 16:57, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

If current OTRS is too crowded, I have no objection having a separate Wikisource OTRS. As you are also a Wikilivres: administrator, your OTRS access also helps that Canadian site to help bypass some USA-specific copyright problems on Wikisource, as I no of no other Wikilivres administrator having OTRS access.--Jusjih 19:24, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Possible documents for import

For enWS, I have been working through en:Category:Copy to Wikisource. There are a number of documents at that page that are tagged that actually are in non-English, and may be worth considering to be imported here. They are not marked according to language. -- Billinghurst 07:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Acknowledged, but English ones should be imported to English Wikisource if acceptable here. Others may be imported here if no subdomains may take them. If any is not copyright-okay, just delete without importing.--Jusjih 04:13, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] When Candalua is editing...

... :-) or another very active user here, it is quite difficult to follow the recent changes. Please see bugzilla:15595 and support it, it could be helpfull. -jkb- 16:11, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Bugs after software refresh

There will be some more bugs, I guess, but this one could be specific fot Wikisource: the autosumm messages do not work her, although they work on the German Wikipedia. See my edit here, this should have appeared. -jkb- 16:52, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Import from Incubator

Hello, on Incubator we have currently at least two Wikisources. A Coptic and an Ancient Greek one. They should be transferred to here. On Special:ListUsers/import I see User:Jusjih is the only importer. He could do that, or if nobody objects I could ask import access at m:rfp so I can do it myself. (I'm used to import, I often do it when new wikis are created.) Thanks, SPQRobin 23:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

You mean the 30 pages listed at http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:AllPages prefixed Ws/cop and Ws/grc, right? I have imported the edit history of these 30 pages. Please check. When moving to rename them, it is possible to suppress the redirect from the old page name if you prefer. It seems that administrator may import now, while import flag may be issued to non-administrator. I got the import flag when administrators could not import yet.--Jusjih 01:43, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I'm an editor from Ws/cop on incubator and I have reviewed all of the imports. From what I see, they are almost certainly as they should be, but, as you said, the pages here still require moves/renames, and the categories as well require renames & subsequent creations to fit with Oldwikisource. Also, I see that the templates (except for any foreign ones meant only for incubator) all need to be compatible with that of the original in order to function properly. Perhaps the first thing is to do is move the main page(s) to the correct title? ~Troy 03:43, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

PS: I have just noticed that one thing was left out—talk pages. (See the prefix index for Ws/cop & Ws/grc.) Should the same be done for those? ~Troy 06:13, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

FYI: as far as I know the transwiki import (possible to every admin) has been disabled since months, but even if now enabled, it is enabled for import from some 20 wikisource subdomains, not from the incubator (bug would be necessary). The import upload (i.e. what Jusjih did today via file at the local PC) can be done by Jusjih only. -jkb- 08:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, according to Special:ListGroupRights.
Btw, you could've edited the XML file to change the titles, as I usually do when importing. That's much easier than renaming all those pages. Anyway it's too late now :-) SPQRobin 10:22, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, you are right when you edit a XML file with one article, that's quite easy, but when you import more articles at once it is rather irritating to edit and change it. -jkb- 11:32, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

A simple find and replace :-) SPQRobin 16:01, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

-) might be when you're exporting Dutch or English pages. But did you ever try to export a XLM file with some mor Coptic pages like Jusjih did today? Normally, how will you search and replace  with  when you do not have a Coptic characters and if you will controll what you are doing? :-) I have tried it now, it is similar to Czech pages etc. The xml file is not to be read. -jkb- 16:17, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

You're probably right, because I can view Coptic characters and I can tell you right now that those weren't copied right. I can't even see these characters in their native font (?????????). So, it may not be that bad to rename the files directly on Wikisource rather than to edit the XML files. (Besides, there are a couple of conflicting templates that weren't an issue on incubator.) ~Troy 17:06, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I haven't had any such problems yet. I can always download fonts so I can view it. Anyway the most important is that they are imported now, not the way how they were imported :-) SPQRobin 19:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Quite true. And it's good that most/all of the data looks unharmed here. After the page/cat/template renames, it should look good as new ;) ~Troy 19:47, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Request for Coptic Unicode insert characters in Edittools

Can somebody edit MediaWiki:Edittools to allow for Coptic characters (per the Unicode Standard for Coptic and Demotic Coptic characters, respectively)? The Coptic Wikisource Project was just transferred from Incubator where we had Coptic Unicode insert characters before. Now that it's here, it would be very useful and even necessary to have them here in order to type more conveniently and effectively. Here are the characters according to the latest Unicode Standard for Coptic characters:

Ⲁ ⲁ Ⲃ ⲃ Ⲅ ⲅ Ⲇ ⲇ Ⲉ ⲉ Ⲋ ⲋ Ⲍ ⲍ Ⲏ ⲏ Ⲑ ⲑ Ⲓ ⲓ Ⲕ ⲕ Ⲗ ⲗ Ⲙ ⲙ Ⲛ ⲛ Ⲝ ⲝ Ⲟ ⲟ Ⲡ ⲡ Ⲣ ⲣ Ⲥ ⲥ Ⲧ ⲧ Ⲩ ⲩ Ⲫ ⲫ Ⲭ ⲭ Ⲯ ⲯ Ⲱ ⲱ Ⲳ ⲳ Ⲵ ⲵ Ⲷ ⲷ Ⲹ ⲹ Ⲻ ⲻ Ⲽ ⲽ Ⲿ ⲿ Ⳁ ⳁ Ⳃ ⳃ Ⳅ ⳅ Ⳇ ⳇ Ⳉ ⳉ Ⳋ ⳋ Ⳍ ⳍ Ⳏ ⳏ Ⳑ ⳑ Ⳓ ⳓ Ⳕ ⳕ Ⳗ ⳗ Ⳙ ⳙ Ⳛ ⳛ Ⳝ ⳝ Ⳟ ⳟ Ⳡ ⳡ Ⳣ ⳣ ⳤ ⳥ ⳦ ⳧ ⳨ ⳩ ⳪ ⳹ ⳺ ⳻ ⳼ ⳽ ⳾ ⳿ Ϣ ϣ Ϥ ϥ Ϧ ϧ Ϩ ϩ Ϫ ϫ Ϭ ϭ Ϯ ϯ

So, please include it in Edittools in the same format as the other languages. Thanks, ~Troy 01:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] ancient greek

who decided that ancient greek should go on ws.org ? are ancient greek texts refused at el.wikisource ? ThomasV 04:58, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

It will be decided by the language committee whether Ancient Greek should go on el.wikisouce or if it should have its own project. Meanwhile it should stay here. SPQRobin 07:43, 29 June 2009 (UTC)